Who Pushes Off With Their Trail Leg?

[hoselpalooza]

15 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

I'm simply showing you with your own swing, as well as swings of notorious power hitters, that a push off the back foot doesn't occur in the transition to the downswing.

You seem to feel like you do this in your own personal swing. That's why I'm using an example of your own personal swing to show you that what you're feeling in the swing is not what is happening in your swing.

this is the swing i would use as an example of pushing off. and just because you can't see it (just like @iacascan't see pitchers pushing or driving off of the mound) doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

[iacas]

15 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

now you're just being rude and ignorant.

@Pretzel's reply was not at all that.

8 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

this is the swing i would use as an example of pushing off. and just because you can't see it (just like @iacascan't see pitchers pushing or driving off of the mound) doesn't mean it's not happening.

It's not happening in that swing either.

Your trail knee is gaining flex and your right heel is lifting.

C'mon man. That's as bad an example as any.

Feel ain't real.

[DaveP043]

8 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

this is the swing i would use as an example of pushing off. and just because you can't see it (just like @iacascan't see pitchers pushing or driving off of the mound) doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

If you can agree that  this example of "pushing off" doesn't actually allow us to see the "pushing off", I can't say that its a very effective example.  What I see is that your right knee stays pretty flexed through the forward swing, and your right heel is well off the ground before your arms are parallel to the ground.  It really appears that your right hip's rotation forward is pulling your right leg forward.

[hoselpalooza]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

@Pretzel's reply was not at all that.

It's not happening in that swing either.

Your trail knee is gaining flex and your right heel is lifting.

C'mon man. That's as bad an example as any.

Feel ain't real.

no, i just don't think you can see it.

[iacas]

Just now, hoselpalooza said:

no, i just don't think you can see it.

Can't see what ain't there, man.

Feel ain't real.

[Pretzel]

1 minute ago, hoselpalooza said:

no, i just don't think you can see it.

I think you just can't see that you're being ridiculous.

You physically cannot push off with the rear foot if you lift your heel and increase the bend in your knee. Pushing off with your rear foot would mean straightening the rear leg and pressing that heel into the ground, because you're pushing off of the foot (which presses the foot into the ground).

Are you really so blinded by the need to be right that you're going to disregard basic physics and biomechanics like this?

[billchao]

11 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

this is the swing i would use as an example of pushing off. and just because you can't see it (just like @iacascan't see pitchers pushing or driving off of the mound) doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

@iacas pointed it out, but your right heel starts to lift almost at transition. You aren't pushing with it, despite what you feel you are doing.

14 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

i know this isn't a baseball site, but many people have likened the golf swing to the baseball throwing motion. i believe using (or pushing/driving) off of the ground with the trail foot is not only an effective way to generate arm speed in baseball, but in golf as well.

I'm not going to debate the mechanics of baseball pitching on a golf site, but I am going to point out the differences between the baseball pitching motion and the golf swing are more dissimilar than they are similar.

1 minute ago, hoselpalooza said:

no, i just don't think you can see it.

See what? What can you push with your heel when it's off the ground, air?

[hoselpalooza]

2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

If you can agree that  this example of "pushing off" doesn't actually allow us to see the "pushing off", I can't say that its a very effective example.  What I see is that your right knee stays pretty flexed through the forward swing, and your right heel is well off the ground before your arms are parallel to the ground.  It really appears that your right hip's rotation forward is pulling your right leg forward.

i think it makes a great example of why it can be difficult for people to try and analyze a swing based on what it looks like. there's a lot going on underneath the surface. and just because it's not easy to see doesn't mean it's not happening.

[Pretzel]

Just now, hoselpalooza said:

i think it makes a great example of why it can be difficult for people to try and analyze a swing based on what it looks like. there's a lot going on underneath the surface. and just because it's not easy to see doesn't mean it's not happening.

It's not that it isn't easy to see.

It's that it's easy to see the exact opposite of what you describe is happening. You are bending your knee and lifting the heel. Those two things are the exact opposite action as pushing off of the ground, which requires you to straighten your leg and drive the foot (including your heel) down into the ground so that you can push off it.

[hoselpalooza]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Can't see what ain't there, man.

Feel ain't real.

very similar move to pushing off the mound. perhaps once you realize this it will become clearer to you.

[DaveP043]

I don't know that I can help you, or that anyone can.  If the feel of pushing off with the right foot helps you, great, keep it up.  That's how feels work, different feels work for different people.  And if you DO ever get on pressure sensors, I think we'd all love to see what actually happens in your swing.  The data would almost certainly prove someone wrong, since the disagreement is so complete.

[Pretzel]

4 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

very similar move to pushing off the mound. perhaps once you realize this it will become clearer to you.

When a pitcher "pushes off the mound" their leg becomes straighter and their heel is flat. Regardless of if the pitcher pushes off the mound or not, this is the exact opposite of what pitchers do.

[hoselpalooza]

1 minute ago, Pretzel said:

It's not that it isn't easy to see.

It's that it's easy to see the exact opposite of what you describe is happening. You are bending your knee and lifting the heel. Those two things are the exact opposite action as pushing off of the ground, which requires you to straighten your leg and drive the foot (including your heel) down into the ground so that you can push off it.

can you do a calf raise without straightening your leg? yes.

can you use this same type of motion to shift pressure from the trail foot to the lead foot? yes.

what i'm doing is kind of like this but without leaving the ground.

 

[iacas]

22 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

And if you DO ever get on pressure sensors, I think we'd all love to see what actually happens in your swing.  The data would almost certainly prove someone wrong, since the disagreement is so complete.

I am not doubting that he could push off a bit with a golf swing. I’m saying that I haven’t seen in >100 PGA Tour guys someone doing it and I don’t see him doing it in the swings we’ve seen.

[hoselpalooza]

here's a video of JT pushing off with the trail foot. pay careful attention to the fabric on the boditrak mat at 25 seconds. he pushes off with his trail foot to shift pressure to the lead foot, causing the fabric to move backwards. no push off would mean no fabric movement there.

also looks like he pushes off pretty hard with the trail toe just before impact. 

 

[chspeed]

@hoselpalooza, I know it feels like you're pushing, but that feeling is probably just your torso changing direction sliding forward.

Try this. Go to the top of your backswing and then just stand on your right leg, with the knee still slightly bent.

Then try one of two things:

1. Try falling onto your front leg as you start the swing. Feel that familiar, nice powerful position?

2. Then get back to your backswing on one leg. Now try to actually push by extending your right knee and pushing against the ground. You will likely just lose control of your body, and will be unable to even start your golf swing properly.

It's like walking. When you walk, you fall forward to your front leg, you don't push off your back foot.

Edited June 7, 2019 by chspeed

[hoselpalooza]

6 minutes ago, chspeed said:

@hoselpalooza, I know it feels like you're pushing, but that feeling is probably just your torso changing direction sliding forward.

Try this. Go to the top of your backswing and then just stand on your right leg, with the knee still slightly bent.

Then try one of two things:

1. Try falling onto your front leg as you start the swing. Feel that familiar, nice powerful position?

2. Then get back to your backswing on one leg. Now try to actually push be extending your right knee and pushing against the ground. You will likely just lose control of your body, and will be unable to even start your golf swing properly.

thanks for your suggestions, but i can tell you with 100% certainty i do not fall to transfer pressure to the front side. i literally push off of my right foot to start the pressure shift. i don't know how much more clear i can be about this.

did you see the JT video i posted above? look at how he pushes off with his trail foot. that's what i do.

my question to you would be this: do you think JT would be able to maintain balance with that swing if you swapped out the boditrack with a banana when he starts transition? no way. his foot would slip right out from under him. because he's pushing off with that foot. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by hoselpalooza
a word

[chspeed]

7 minutes ago, hoselpalooza said:

thanks for your suggestions, but i can tell you with 100% certainty i do not fall to transfer pressure to the front side. i literally push off of my right foot to start the pressure shift. i don't know how much more clear i can be about this.

did you see the JT video i posted about? look at how he pushes off with his trail foot. that's what i do. 

my question to you would be this: do you think JT would be able to maintain balance with that swing if you swapped out the boditrack with a banana when he starts transition? no way. his foot would slip right out from under him. because he's pushing off with that foot. 

I did. JT gets almost all his pressure to the front leg very early by sliding forward, not by pushing off.

Look at this pic, this is right at transition. His knee has GAINED flex and his foot is off the ground. He hasn't pushed off the right leg at all.

View second 25-26 in the video. You'll see that when he gets his pressure forward, his right leg is bending and foot is coming off the ground. That's not how you push.

By the time extends the right leg, it only has a bit of his body pressure on it.

Edited June 7, 2019 by chspeed