Wedges (Lofts, Bounce & Grind)?

[stolpioni]

I am looking to purchase a set of Cobra F8 irons which will have its PW at a 44 degree loft. Thinking of buying either 2 or 3 wedges.

Should I go with 48 / 54 / 60 or 48 / 52 / 58? Or a simpler setup like 50 / 58 only?

And what kind of bounce and grind should I get in each wedge?

I am looking into Vokeys (Titliest), Mack Daddys and Cleveland RTX-3 or RTX-4. Those are all available at the local shop.

Edited June 24, 2019 by stolpioni

[CharlieB]

I just bought a set of Vokey SM6 demos this past weekend. I got a 54-08 in a M grind and a 58-12 in a K grind. I spent about three hours working with them and really like them. I can’t believe how good of condition there in, plus how little I paid for them. That K grind just pops right out of the sand. My Ping pitching wedge is 46*.

[stolpioni]

  On 6/24/2019 at 9:18 PM, CharlieB said:

I just bought a set of Vokey SM6 demos this past weekend. I got a 54-08 in a M grind and a 58-12 in a K grind. I spent about three hours working with them and really like them. I can’t believe how good of condition there in, plus how little I paid for them. That K grind just pops right out of the sand. My Ping pitching wedge is 46*.

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Nice. Did you get fitted for these or what made you choose these specific bounce and grind values?

[CharlieB]

I hit my son’s 54-08 M grind and liked it for hitting into the green from the fairway. I watched a fitting that Bob Vokey was doing with the K grind and thought I would just try it. I could get out of the sand, or green-side rough every time with it. The easiest wedge I ever hit.

[stolpioni]

  On 6/24/2019 at 9:58 PM, CharlieB said:

I hit my son’s 54-08 M grind and liked it for hitting into the green from the fairway. I watched a fitting that Bob Vokey was doing with the K grind and thought I would just try it. I could get out of the sand, or green-side rough every time with it. The easiest wedge I ever hit.

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Are you sure your 58K is 12? When I pull up the K it says it's in 14, the one with 12 bounce is called "D".

After your recommendations I am now thinking of the following:

48-10, F Grind (For shots from 100-120 yards or so outside the green)
54-08, M Grind (For chipping and short pitching around the green - this will be my main wedge to use probably 80% of the time)
58-14, K Grind (For bunker shots)

Can you use the 58K for lob shots from the rough close to the green as well? And do you use your 54M for chipping as well?

Edited June 24, 2019 by stolpioni

[allenc]

No need to compromise on lofts.  All companies will give you any lofts you want.  So go with 49, 54, 59.  5 degree gaps all the way.

[Adam C]

Bounce is something you have to figure out based on how you swing the club, what type of courses you play, and what kinds of shots you plan on hitting. 

High bounce- better for steeper swings aka big deep divots. More bounce is also helpful out of most sand and thicker rough.

Low bounce- better for shallow swings aka little thin divots. Can be better off tight lies and hard pan.

Grind is less of an issue unless you plan on opening or manipulating the face for shots around the green. Basically just removing material from the sole to allow for better turf interaction.

Good news for loft is you can always adjust the loft after the fact to fill your gaps accordingly. At least with the brands you mentioned, (although the Cleveland stuff can be a bit stubborn to move). 

Also not a bad idea to check your lie angle with them and make sure that is where it should be.

[iacas]

  On 6/25/2019 at 12:41 AM, Adam C said:

Bounce is something you have to figure out based on how you swing the club, what type of courses you play, and what kinds of shots you plan on hitting. 

High bounce- better for steeper swings aka big deep divots. More bounce is also helpful out of most sand and thicker rough.

Low bounce- better for shallow swings aka little thin divots. Can be better off tight lies and hard pan.

Grind is less of an issue unless you plan on opening or manipulating the face for shots around the green. Basically just removing material from the sole to allow for better turf interaction.

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Never been a big fan of that line of thinking. It's the classic old line, but the grind can have a huge influence.

I've said it a hundred times, but my lob wedge has 22° bounce, and I can play it off a cart path if needed. I'll hit it off hardpan, even opened up a little. The bounce AND the grind are very important - the best IMO is a high bounce, but very short cambered sole with both heel and toe relief. Max versatility and forgiveness.

 

[ncates00]

  On 6/25/2019 at 1:54 AM, iacas said:

Never been a big fan of that line of thinking. It's the classic old line, but the grind can have a huge influence.

I've said it a hundred times, but my lob wedge has 22° bounce, and I can play it off a cart path if needed. I'll hit it off hardpan, even opened up a little. The bounce AND the grind are very important - the best IMO is a high bounce, but very short cambered sole with both heel and toe relief. Max versatility and forgiveness.

 

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Those black Edel's look MONEY.

I like black woods, hybrids, and wedges.  chrome irons.

[Adam C]

  On 6/25/2019 at 1:54 AM, iacas said:

Never been a big fan of that line of thinking. It's the classic old line, but the grind can have a huge influence.

I've said it a hundred times, but my lob wedge has 22° bounce, and I can play it off a cart path if needed. I'll hit it off hardpan, even opened up a little. The bounce AND the grind are very important - the best IMO is a high bounce, but very short cambered sole with both heel and toe relief. Max versatility and forgiveness.

 

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If you have 22 degrees of bounce then yes, the grind can play a major role. However, as most wedges max out at 16 degrees, and that's on the mid lofts, it's more fine tuning. And you have to remember that any time you grind down a wedge, you are removing material from the sole and making it less forgiving. This can be fine and even beneficial for some golfers, but it can be a total disaster for others. If you have issues with consistency in your chipping and sand game, I say more bounce and wide sole for most amateurs.

[iacas]

  On 6/25/2019 at 3:05 AM, Adam C said:

If you have 22 degrees of bounce then yes, the grind can play a major role. However, as most wedges max out at 16 degrees, and that's on the mid lofts, it's more fine tuning. And you have to remember that any time you grind down a wedge, you are removing material from the sole and making it less forgiving. This can be fine and even beneficial for some golfers, but it can be a total disaster for others. If you have issues with consistency in your chipping and sand game, I say more bounce and wide sole for most amateurs.

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I don’t agree that grinding away material makes a club less forgiving and I think wide soles GREATLY minimize versatility.

Wedge makers too often go low(er) bounce with a wider sole. Blech. High bounce, narrow camber/sole, toe/heel relief. That’s a combo that’s versatile and forgiving IMO.

[leftybutnotPM]

The main thing to avoid is low bounce if you play courses with tightly mown areas where you'd be using it, particularly if your swing is steep. I think high bounce wedges are more forgiving and versatile. A player with a steep swing is going to struggle with low bounce wedges.

[Adam C]

  On 6/25/2019 at 3:24 AM, iacas said:

I don’t agree that grinding away material makes a club less forgiving and I think wide soles GREATLY minimize versatility.

Wedge makers too often go low(er) bounce with a wider sole. Blech. High bounce, narrow camber/sole, toe/heel relief. That’s a combo that’s versatile and forgiving IMO.

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The grind will make a club less forgiving from a pure cg/moi standpoint. You are removing material (aka weight) from around the perimeter, low on the club or from the back of the sole. From that you are essentially shrinking the sweet spot and raising the cg and moving it forward. None of these things make a club easier to hit. That being said, better golfers can handle those changes and benefit from, as you mentioned, the versatility to manipulate the face or hit from uneven lies.

However, for golfers who struggle with solid contact around the green, I think the larger sole with it's forgiving nature, outweighs the lack of versatility from those features.

[saevel25]

  On 6/25/2019 at 1:51 PM, Adam C said:

From that you are essentially shrinking the sweet spot and raising the cg and moving it forward. None of these things make a club easier to hit. That being said, better golfers can handle those changes and benefit from, as you mentioned, the versatility to manipulate the face or hit from uneven lies. 

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You are talking about minimal influence, especially compared to the fact that it's a wedge. It has the highest loft (less curve, more subject to start line issues than anything). It's the shortest club, less likely to then go offline anyways.

[iacas]

  On 6/25/2019 at 4:27 AM, leftybutnotPM said:

The main thing to avoid is low bounce if you play courses with tightly mown areas where you'd be using it, particularly if your swing is steep. I think high bounce wedges are more forgiving and versatile. A player with a steep swing is going to struggle with low bounce wedges.

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I think players with shallow swings can struggle with low-bounce wedges too. Bounce is your friend… so long as it's not "fake bounce" via "wide sole."

  On 6/25/2019 at 1:51 PM, Adam C said:

The grind will make a club less forgiving from a pure cg/moi standpoint.

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That's not the type of "forgiveness" I'm talking about at all.

  On 6/25/2019 at 1:51 PM, Adam C said:

From that you are essentially shrinking the sweet spot

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Eh…

  On 6/25/2019 at 1:51 PM, Adam C said:

and raising the cg and moving it forward.

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Eh… removing weight from the sole might shift the CG back slightly. The sole is close to the leading edge. Regardless, not the type of "forgiveness" I'm talking about because it's not the type that matters in a wedge, IMO. I'm talking about the forgiveness afforded by the sole on playing a variety of shots.

  On 6/25/2019 at 1:51 PM, Adam C said:

However, for golfers who struggle with solid contact around the green, I think the larger sole with it's forgiving nature, outweighs the lack of versatility from those features.

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I don't, at all.

It's a freaking wedge, man. How much of your type of "forgiveness" is needed around the greens?

[Adam C]

  On 6/25/2019 at 2:02 PM, saevel25 said:

You are talking about minimal influence, especially compared to the fact that it's a wedge. It has the highest loft (less curve, more subject to start line issues than anything). It's the shortest club, less likely to then go offline anyways.

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I am not talking about curve. I am talking about just hitting the ball in the center of the face which is a problem for higher handicappers, which is what the OP is. I realize that I am making assumptions about his particular wedge game but having worked in the business for years I always lean to the more forgiving side of the coin.

 

  On 6/25/2019 at 2:03 PM, iacas said:

I don't, at all.

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Look, I'm not talking about Alien wedges or some crazy super wide soles here. OP listed what he was looking at. Vokey, Callaway, Cleveland CG4, all very traditional wedge designs. I am saying with those wedges, a lot of sole grinding, heel and toe relief etc, is not likely to help a higher handicapper versus the basic more full sole design. Again talking high handicappers here, not pros and 3.6s.

[iacas]

  On 6/25/2019 at 2:41 PM, Adam C said:

Look, I'm not talking about Alien wedges or some crazy super wide soles here. OP listed what he was looking at. Vokey, Callaway, Cleveland CG4, all very traditional wedge designs. I am saying with those wedges, a lot of sole grinding, heel and toe relief etc, is not likely to help a higher handicapper versus the basic more full sole design. Again talking high handicappers here, not pros and 3.6s.

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FWIW, I never said "a lot". Obviously if you shave down "a lot" of the sole material, you can run into issues.

[Typhoon92]

I think you can have high bounce depending on the grind.  Personally I don't like to have to think so much about equipment.  For years the Callaway x forged and now the pm grind wedges give me no complaints.

Is there something better out there?  Probably but I prefer less tinkering so there is less doubt and second guessing.

 

Seems too some companies like Callaway and Cleveland have a line of wedges geared toward the higher handicappers

Edited June 25, 2019 by Typhoon92