Swing Speed

[Casualgolfer]

Yep, I'm one of those guys.. been on launch monitor in the low 130's swing speed. Doesn't equate to great scores however. Finding equipment sucks and harnessing the speed on the course can be harder. Shoot mid to high 80's generally. 

[Keep It Simple]

2 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

Distance is the direct result of swing speed. 

Ok thanks Leadbetter.   I guess we can all stop worrying about silly things like club path, face angle, dynamic loft, attack angle, launch angle, smash factor, spin rate...

[Bonvivant]

Just now, Keep It Simple said:

Ok thanks Leadbetter.   I guess we can all stop worrying about silly things like club path, face angle, dynamic loft, attack angle, launch angle, smash factor, spin rate...

I like how you disregarded the second part of my post. The OP asked if high swing speed in high handicapers was possible, which of course it is. And he also asked is it the equivalent of posting about much longer drive distance than their handicap would dictate, which is also accurate IMO. He falls in the same boat as me, which is not understanding how people can have these swing speeds and distances and still play at a high handicap. Why in the world would you keep swinging so hard if you can't keep the strike consistent and know where the ball is going? If you do know where the ball is going and you hit 280 yard drives, how do you play off so much cap?

Obviously there are more things that go into distance than swing speed......but swing speed, and to a lesser extent spin rate (at an amateur level), makes up the largest percentage of that pie. Smash factor shouldn't even be listed there, because its the product of all the other things (and a bit of how hot the face is). Club path doesn't change distance if the strike is on the same spot of the face. 

[billchao]

48 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

He falls in the same boat as me, which is not understanding how people can have these swing speeds and distances and still play at a high handicap.

Faster swings = bigger misses.

50 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Why in the world would you keep swinging so hard if you can't keep the strike consistent and know where the ball is going?

I guarantee the majority of poor golfers with fast swings aren’t swinging any harder (effort-wise) than you are. They just swing faster than you.

The same question could be asked about any speed for a high handicap player. Why swing your driver 90 mph when you can’t control it? Just bunt it down the fairway, putt it if you have to. You’ll stay out of trouble, but I guarantee you won’t play golf for very long.

54 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

If you do know where the ball is going and you hit 280 yard drives, how do you play off so much cap?

Funny enough I can still answer this question because my driving is awful. I absolutely do know where my ball is going. The problem is, I need a football field as my target and they just don’t build golf courses like that.

58 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Obviously there are more things that go into distance than swing speed......but swing speed, and to a lesser extent spin rate (at an amateur level), makes up the largest percentage of that pie.

If you’re going to pick only one data point, ball speed is more important than swing speed. Swing speed sets the limit of what ball speed can be produced, but a guy who swings fast and makes poor contact is still going to produce slower ball speeds than he potentially could.

[Bonvivant]

18 minutes ago, billchao said:

Funny enough I can still answer this question because my driving is awful. I absolutely do know where my ball is going. The problem is, I need a football field as my target and they just don’t build golf courses like that.

If you’re going to pick only one data point, ball speed is more important than swing speed. Swing speed sets the limit of what ball speed can be produced, but a guy who swings fast and makes poor contact is still going to produce slower ball speeds than he potentially could.

When I say "know where it's going", I mean within a 40 yard window. Unless you are playing very difficult courses, then you should be able to stay away from OB and hazards with that. And if a high-cap is playing those difficult courses, that might be why they struggle.

You are absolutely right on the ball speed thing, but generally speaking swing speed is a decent indicator of distance. 

I agree with most of what you said otherwise also, but I think if I was making inconsistent contact to the point of it costing 2 strokes a couple of times a round, I would dial it back. Whether it's from 120 to 110 or 100 to 90mph swing speeds, slowing the head down should make it easier to get consistent contact.

[billchao]

10 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

When I say "know where it's going", I mean within a 40 yard window.

I’m a 13 and I can’t hit a driver consistently within a 40 yard window. I know single digit players that can’t do this. It’s just basic mathematics really. A 40 yard window at 280 yards is not the same as a 40 yard window at 230 yards. The margin of error is much smaller at longer distances.

13 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

And if a high-cap is playing those difficult courses, that might be why they struggle.

High handicap players will struggle if they played on a cow pasture. That part has little to do with swing speed.

15 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

You are absolutely right on the ball speed thing, but generally speaking swing speed is a decent indicator of distance. 

Swing speed can tell you someone’s potential, but if I gave you two player’s swing speed and nothing else, you’re not going to be able to pick out who the better player is, or the player that hits the ball farther on average.

I swing faster than Jim Furyk, but he is longer than me on average off the tee and far more accurate.

23 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

I agree with most of what you said otherwise also, but I think if I was making inconsistent contact to the point of it costing 2 strokes a couple of times a round, I would dial it back. Whether it's from 120 to 110 or 100 to 90mph swing speeds, slowing the head down should make it easier to get consistent contact.

How is your partial wedge game? Serious question.

It’s not that easy to dial back or just simply swing slower. You end up changing all sorts of different variables, and guess what? You still hit misses.

[Bonvivant]

10 minutes ago, billchao said:

How is your partial wedge game? Serious question.

It’s not that easy to dial back or just simply swing slower. You end up changing all sorts of different variables, and guess what? You still hit misses.

Quite good actually. I mean, obviously I am not that good at golf, but for me it is one of the best parts. It helps that my 53 degree only goes 90 yards, but I play that club everything from 25-90 yards, and when I am at 90 yards sometimes I play a PW or even a 9 iron depending on the situation. Inside of 25, I play the club that will get me on the green and ball rolling fastest. That could be anything from a 5 iron down to my 53. The only time I use the 58 is sand, or if I absolutely have to get over something.

Not wedges, but at my local exec course, on hole 9, they have the tees completely shut down and moved all the tees to the bottom of the tiered tee box. The hole plays 220-260 depending on the tees normally, but right now it is playing about 215. I have been playing partial driver because I have to really get a hold of a 4W to get to the green. My driver has been between 230-240 (on good strikes), so I just take a bit off, and I have been hitting the green regularly with this method.

I've never understood how people have so much trouble with flighted shots, partial shots, or anything of the like. I'm not going to say that I am sniping down pins when I am inside 80 yards, but I'm typically within a 20-25 ft circle from there, which is a big improvement over my full swings.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Bonvivant

[TRUCKER]

5 hours ago, Keep It Simple said:

 

Want to know what else we aren't talking about here?  DISTANCE

Read the original post before commenting next time.  

...Huh? What the hell are you talking about?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Bonvivant said:

When I say "know where it's going", I mean within a 40 yard window.

PGA Tour players make decisions based on what's within about a 60-yard window.

So, I think you're being a bit unreasonable with your 40-yard wide window.

[Bonvivant]

Just now, iacas said:

PGA Tour players make decisions based on what's within about a 60-yard window.

I guess what I am getting at is that if someone has a 100 (or 150 or 70 or whatever it is) yard range horizontally, and they are consistently hemorrhaging strokes from OB or water, they should consider tightening their horizontal dispersion instead of blasting away at the ball. Obviously distance is a very powerful asset, but if it is hurting you more than it is helping, some time is needed on the range or practicing in some way that rectifies the problem. Whether that is to tighten their dispersion with their current swing speed or to back it off just a touch to make a better strike.

[TRUCKER]

5 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I didn’t say my speed was 105-110 when cranking it up. That’s my normal swing speed. This is what the launch monitor shows, and is also reflected by on course distances. I’m not going to try to convince you if you’re skeptical.

The golfers you referenced are + HCP, so I’m sure they have above average swing speed and excellent ballstriking. I never claimed to make center-face contact with optimum angle of attack which are variables more indicative of low HCP than just swing speed in a vacuum.

This makes it more unbelievable. The average part. BTW...Which is it 105 or 110. It's kind of like fuel mileage in trucking. It's easy to get from 5 mpg to 6 mpg. Just slowing down to 55 mph, from 65 mph, will get you a full mpg in fuel economy, and it doesn't cost you a penny. BUT, to go from 6 to 7, it takes more. I think its the same here. To get from 95 to 100, probably just getting in better shape. To get from 100 to 105 though, gonna need some training, and to get to 110, major work. Same holds true with HC. To get to an 18, clean up the short game, ie. low hanging fruit. To get to a 13, gonna take some training. To get to a single digit, major work. I think you guys get on these launch monitors, and swing for the fences, and tell everyone you average 110 mph SS, and drive the ball average 250. The male ego...🤣

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Bonvivant said:

I guess what I am getting at is that if someone has a 100 (or 150 or 70 or whatever it is) yard range horizontally

But you said 40, which is the only point I was making. And that @billchao was making before that.

[Casualgolfer]

For me sometimes trying to slow things down produces worse results. Sometimes just getting after it produces better strikes. 

[Bonvivant]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

But you said 40, which is the only point I was making. And that @billchao was making before that.

But the further you hit it, the wider the window, right? I'm someone that hits it 230-240, so while I did make it a tighter angular number than a pro would, not by nearly as much as it seems. And I know that a high handicapper isn't going to hit the same angular accuracy as a pro, but one can dream.

[Buckeyebowman]

8 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

There have been a few guys on here, HC 17, and above, claiming that their swing speed is in excess of 105 MPH. One was 110, another was over 110, another 118 MPH, etc. Is this possible? Or is this similar to the guys that claim to drive the ball, on average, 280 yards.

Of course they can swing that fast. And they probably have little idea of where the ball is going! Every year I see guys out there who can swat the dog snot out of the ball, and all it does it put them deeper in the woods!

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

but if it is hurting you more than it is helping

I think we're all smart enough that we don't need statements like that. Don't you?

[billchao]

6 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

To get from 95 to 100, probably just getting in better shape. To get from 100 to 105 though, gonna need some training, and to get to 110, major work.

Not really. Some people are just naturally better than others at swinging a stick fast, whether that is due to natural athleticism or more fast twitch muscles, whatever. Just like how two kids can throw a baseball for the first time and one throws harder than the other.

9 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

I think you guys get on these launch monitors, and swing for the fences, and tell everyone you average 110 mph SS, and drive the ball average 250. The male ego...🤣

I think the only person having an ego issue here seems to be you. Just because you can’t do something, you have a hard time believing others can? Makes no sense to me.

[Keep It Simple]

31 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

...Huh? What the hell are you talking about?

Let me dumb it down for you by answering your questions in the simplest way possible.

“There have been a few guys on here, HC 17, and above, claiming that their swing speed is in excess of 105 MPH. One was 110, another was over 110, another 118 MPH, etc. Is this possible? ”  YES

”Or is this similar to the guys that claim to drive the ball, on average, 280 yards.”. NO