What May be Moved?

[Asheville]

What May be Moved?

1) Which of the following are not loose impediments?

A. Banana peels
B. Worm casts and ant hills
C. Spider webs
D. Dew and frost

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Don’t guess! Look it up. Where? in Definitions, of course.

2) Loose impediments may not be moved in the:

A. Fairways and rough
B. Penalty areas
C. Bunkers
D. None of the above

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You should already know this one, but look it up anyway in Rule 15.

3) The player needs to be careful in moving loose impediments near their ball off the putting green, because there will be a penalty if moving them causes the ball to move. True or false?

A. True
B. False 

  Reveal hidden contents

You better already know this one, but look it up anyway in Rule 15.

Some tough ones are in store for tomorrow.
 

[boogielicious]

I would guess:

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1 D, 2 B, 3 B. If the ball moves because you accidentally moved it, replace with no penalty.

 

[iacas]

But why guess, Scott? Did you decide differently after looking them up?

[bkuehn1952]

  On 3/27/2020 at 10:16 AM, Asheville said:

What May be Moved?

1) Which of the following are not loose impediments?

A. Banana peels
B. Worm casts and ant hills
C. Spider webs
D. Dew and frost

  Reveal hidden contents

Don’t guess! Look it up. Where? in Definitions, of course.

2) Loose impediments may not be moved in the:

A. Fairways and rough
B. Penalty areas
C. Bunkers
D. None of the above

  Reveal hidden contents

You should already know this one, but look it up anyway in Rule 15.

3) The player needs to be careful in moving loose impediments near their ball off the putting green, because there will be a penalty if moving them causes the ball to move. True or false?

A. True
B. False 

  Reveal hidden contents

You better already know this one, but look it up anyway in Rule 15.

Some tough ones are in store for tomorrow.
 

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Semi-confident on these:

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1. D

2. D  - That was one of the Rules changes I felt made a lot of sense.  Our public course bunkers are not manicured and often, especially in Autumn, they have a large collection of leaves and branches in the bunker.

3. A. - As a consequence of being able to move/remove loose impediments from bunkers and penalty areas, players are going to incur penalties when they are too aggressive with the moving/removal process.

Add: Nice to know that an old dog can learn a few new tricks.

 

Edited March 27, 2020 by bkuehn1952

[Club Rat]

  On 3/27/2020 at 10:16 AM, Asheville said:

3) The player needs to be careful in moving loose impediments near their ball off the putting green, because there will be a penalty if moving them causes the ball to move. True or false?

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Shouldn't there be a "C" answer - Only if he fails to replace to original position?
IMO, both T & F answers would be correct under these circumstances.

[dennyjones]

  On 3/27/2020 at 10:16 AM, Asheville said:

What May be Moved?

1) Which of the following are not loose impediments?

A. Banana peels
B. Worm casts and ant hills
C. Spider webs
D. Dew and frost

  Reveal hidden contents

Don’t guess! Look it up. Where? in Definitions, of course.

2) Loose impediments may not be moved in the:

A. Fairways and rough
B. Penalty areas
C. Bunkers
D. None of the above

  Reveal hidden contents

You should already know this one, but look it up anyway in Rule 15.

3) The player needs to be careful in moving loose impediments near their ball off the putting green, because there will be a penalty if moving them causes the ball to move. True or false?

A. True
B. False 

  Reveal hidden contents

You better already know this one, but look it up anyway in Rule 15.

Some tough ones are in store for tomorrow.
 

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Late to the party but here goes.  I read the rule but still need an understanding.

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D

B

A

 

[Asheville]

  On 3/27/2020 at 8:41 PM, Club Rat said:

Shouldn't there be a "C" answer - Only if he fails to replace to original position?
IMO, both T & F answers would be correct under these circumstances.

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This may be a RTFQ for you. It's asking about actions OFF the green. If I've misdiagnosed your reply, dig into Rule 15.1b.

  On 3/27/2020 at 9:48 PM, dennyjones said:

Late to the party but here goes.  I read the rule but still need an understanding.

  Reveal hidden contents

D

B

A

 

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Take a look at Q2 again. In R15.1, you'll read "Without penalty, a player may remove a loose impediment anywhere on or off the course  . . . "

---

There are few things I despise in life, but the "auto-merge" on this site is high on the list!

SEE WHAT I MEAN, THE MONSTER CONTINUES TO OBFUSCATE THE MEANINGS OF OUR REPLIES! GRRRRR

[iacas]

  On 3/27/2020 at 11:02 PM, Asheville said:

There are few things I despise in life, but the "auto-merge" on this site is high on the list!

SEE WHAT I MEAN, THE MONSTER CONTINUES TO OBFUSCATE THE MEANINGS OF OUR REPLIES! GRRRRR

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Calm down. Nothing's being obfuscated - it's pretty clear to everyone that your first response is to the first quoted bit by @Club Rat and your second is a response to @dennyjones .

[fredf]

DDA.

But in Q3, while A is the general answer, there are exceptions where B is also true. Bonus points for identifying (other than the putting green case).

[Asheville]

  On 3/28/2020 at 1:31 AM, fredf said:

DDA.

But in Q3, while A is the general answer, there are exceptions where B is also true. Bonus points for identifying (other than the putting green case).

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Agreed, Fred. However, this is Rules 101. 🙂

[fredf]

  On 3/28/2020 at 2:11 AM, Asheville said:

Agreed, Fred. However, this is Rules 101. 🙂

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Understood. And you are doing a fine job here, I seek only to complement.

[bkuehn1952]

  On 3/28/2020 at 1:31 AM, fredf said:

DDA.

But in Q3, while A is the general answer, there are exceptions where B is also true. Bonus points for identifying (other than the putting green case).

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The obvious one to me is during a search for a ball, where accidentally moving the ball while removing/moving loose impediments incurs no penalty.  Hey guys, help me out.  @fredf said "exceptions" and I am out of answers.

[Club Rat]

  On 3/27/2020 at 10:16 AM, Asheville said:

3) The player needs to be careful in moving loose impediments near their ball off the putting green, because there will be a penalty if moving them causes the ball to move. True or false?

A. True
B. False 

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  Quote

b. Ball Moved When Removing Loose Impediment

If a player’s removal of a loose impedimentLoose Impediment: Any unattached natural object such as:(...Continued) causes his or her ball to moveMoved: When a ball at rest has left its original spot and come to rest on any other spot, and this can be seen by the naked eye (whether or not anyone actually sees it do so).(...Continued):

The ball must be replaced Replace: To place a ball by setting it down and letting it go, with the intent for it to be in play.(...Continued) on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated) (see Rule 14.2).

If the moved Moved: When a ball at rest has left its original spot and come to rest on any other spot, and this can be seen by the naked eye (whether or not anyone actually sees it do so).(...Continued) ball had been at rest anywhere except on the putting greenPutting Green: The area on the hole the player is playing that:(...Continued) (see Rule 13.1d) or in the teeing areaTeeing Area: The area the player must play from in starting the hole he or she is playing.(...Continued) (see Rule 6.2b(6)), the player gets one penalty stroke under Rule 9.4b, except when Rule 7.4 applies (no penalty for ball movedMoved: When a ball at rest has left its original spot and come to rest on any other spot, and this can be seen by the naked eye (whether or not anyone actually sees it do so).(...Continued) during search) or when another exception to Rule 9.4b applies.

Penalty for Playing Incorrectly SubstitutedSubstitute: To change the ball the player is using to play a hole by having another ball become the ball in play.(...Continued) Ball or Playing Ball from a Wrong Place Wrong Place: Any place on the course other than where the player is required or allowed to play his or her ball under the Rules.(...Continued) in Breach of Rule 15.1: General Penalty Under Rule 6.3b or 14.7a.

If multiple Rule breaches result from a single act or related acts, see Rule 1.3c(4).

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@Asheville my question was under the situation when a ball had moved, it would be a breech when a player did not place the ball back to it's original position. 

In your quiz, the answer is B, no penalty.
But I was stating a player could result in breech if not replaced to original position. 

Thus, IF when this occurs, there are consequences when not applied correctly.

 

[fredf]

Yes, Rule 7.4 identifying ball is a good example. Also when proceeding under a Rule, eg, lifting the ball to take relief but moving a loose impediment next to the ball first causes the ball to move (9.4b Exc 4). Another is if the ball in play is back in the teeing area and against a loose impediment - no penalty for any accidental movement in that situation.

[iacas]

  On 3/28/2020 at 1:06 PM, Club Rat said:

@Asheville my question was under the situation when a ball had moved, it would be a breech when a player did not place the ball back to it's original position. 

In your quiz, the answer is B, no penalty.

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John, there's a penalty if you move a loose impediment off the putting green and your ball moves as a result.

The answer is a) True.

Whether the ball is replaced is a separate matter that isn't part of the question asked.

[fredf]

  On 3/28/2020 at 1:06 PM, Club Rat said:

@Asheville my question was under the situation when a ball had moved, it would be a breech when a player did not place the ball back to it's original position. 

In your quiz, the answer is B, no penalty.
But I was stating a player could result in breech if not replaced to original position. 

Thus, IF when this occurs, there are consequences when not applied correctly.

 

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Not sure I'm following this @Club Rat, but as noted above, it is one shot penalty for causing your ball to move off the putting green and ball must be replaced. Failure to replace the ball elevates the penalty to 2SP for playing from a wrong place.

[iacas]

  On 3/28/2020 at 1:25 PM, fredf said:

Not sure I'm following this @Club Rat, but as noted above, it is one shot penalty for causing your ball to move off the putting green and ball must be replaced. Failure to replace the ball elevates the penalty to 2SP for playing from a wrong place.

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John seems to have gotten himself turned around somewhere.

Make sure, @fredf, when you try to tag someone that you actually do it. @Club Rat - you have to choose their name from the small popup. https://thesandtrap.com/how-to/mention-members

[Club Rat]

  On 3/28/2020 at 1:50 PM, iacas said:

John seems to have gotten himself turned around somewhere.

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Well Damnit, I didn't read enough, now I see how it applies.
I took this as "Free Relief" from loose impediments...

  Quote

Purpose of Rule: Rule 15 covers when and how the player may take free relief from loose impediments and movable obstructions.

• These movable natural and artificial objects are not treated as part of the challenge of playing the course, and a player is normally allowed to remove them when they interfere with play.

• But the player needs to be careful in moving loose impediments near his or her ball off the putting green, because there will be a penalty if moving them causes the ball to move.

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Another Question. When I need to move a loose impediment?
I will usually announce my intention to Identify my ball and mark it.
Then is it OK to remove any loose objects before replacing my ball back to it's original position?