I Keep Losing at Golf and it Really Annoys Me

[tadpole87]

Hi,

I am new to this forum and this will be my first ever post.

I started golf 2 years ago and currently playing on a 15.4 handicap. I spend so much money and time practicing and playing. I love the game but sometimes I just get really annoyed after a lousy day at golf. In the group that I play with everyone is between 3-6 handicap and I can never win them even if they were to give me strokes. I get tease all the time when Im last in the group and I am sick of losing. My goal is just to beat them each time but I feel I'm not getting anywhere with my game. I need some help or advice. 

 

Thank you.

[mohearn]

57 minutes ago, tadpole87 said:

H. I get tease all the time when Im last in the group and I am sick of losing. My goal is just to beat them each time but I feel I'm not getting anywhere with my game. I need some help or advice. 

They tease you because they admire you and want to help you improve. Reframe it.

As to winning, you're already getting strokes, would it really make you feel better to get more strokes just to say you won? Don't worry about it!  

[pganapathy]

With strokes, in theory, all of you should be playing roughly equal.  The person who will win is the one who plays better than his/her handicap.  Is it possible you lose because you don't play to 15 handicap and should realistically be a higher handicap.  Just asking 🤷‍♂️

[Shindig]

First, welcome to TST.  Hopefully we can help you with your game.

One thing you want to do is figure out where you're losing strokes and where the most meaningful strokes to reduce can come from.  Do you measure strokes gained in any way?  If nothing else, next time you play, write down how close to the hole (estimates are fine if they're reasonable accurate) you start each green and putts taken.  We can use that to see if there's some low hanging fruit to drop your scores (there was for me).  Or maybe you're an expert putter already and we need to work on your full swing.

Second, if this is a hole by hole match, do you use your strokes wisely?  Similar question for medal play.

For example, when I'm playing match play, if I get a stroke on a hole and my opponent hits first, that will affect my decision for my tee shot.  I remember an opponent a few years ago hitting one O.B. off the tee on a hole where I was getting a shot and where it was a tight driving hole anyway, but where in stroke play, I'd already need driver and a wood to get to the green in two.  Of course, if he were middle of the fairway, I'd have to give myself a chance for that.  Into my bag went my driver, out came a hybrid.  I figured even if I hit a poor shot with the hybrid, I'd be better off after three shots than he would be by enough that I'd win the hole, and that by hitting driver, I'd risk refusing advantage.  

By contrast, on that same hole in a different match, I remember hitting a tee shot into the trees and watching my opponent pull his driver and follow me into them, despite him getting a stroke there.

Note that hitting driver on that hole is best (unless you have a very wild dispersion) for expected lower score over time.  However, in the first example, 5 and even likely 6 would have the same effect for me.  That's obviously not true in stroke play.

[billchao]

2 hours ago, tadpole87 said:

I get tease all the time when Im last in the group and I am sick of losing.

They’re your friends? If so then they’ll tease you even if you were beating them.

2 hours ago, tadpole87 said:

I need some help or advice. 

Figure out where you’re losing strokes and work on that.

[imsys0042]

I’d echo @billchao for what I’d say.   But if you feel teased, feel free to find new friends.

I’ve felt that way,   For a time I was always near last in club tournaments and it really bothered me.  I took a couple of lessons and fixed a really fundamental flaw in my swing.   I’m playing a lot better now, so having another pair of eyes can help.

[StuM]

Easy fix, STOP competing against your friends.  First, you could golf the best round of your life and still lose if they also shoot lower than their normal. Second, when you try so hard to "Beat them" you may be taking overly aggressive shots your game is not ready for and thus hurting your score.  Third, your mental game may not be ready for the "Competitive Stress" of focusing on beating your friends.   Instead of competing against them, compete against yourself and the course.  Eventually you will have a great round and not only beat yourself and the course, but your friends as well.  

I suggest you keep a formal handicap via GHIN.  When you enter your score for a round it will use the course rating & slope and give you a "Differential".  You can then compare the differential against your prior rounds and when you get a lower differential you know you had one of your better rounds and you "Win".  You will still have good & bad rounds but unless you are getting worse every round you will "Win" some (and lose some).

You could also make games to compete against yourself on the course.  Take a look at the 2021 Birdie Challenge (or par challenge).  You compete against the course to get a birdie/par on each hole over the course of the season. 

 

 

[tadpole87]

7 hours ago, mohearn said:

They tease you because they admire you and want to help you improve. Reframe it.

As to winning, you're already getting strokes, would it really make you feel better to get more strokes just to say you won? Don't worry about it!  

Thank you! 

[RickK]

Keep statistics.  Are you losing strokes because of your driver being wild?  Are you missing greens?  If you miss a green, how many strokes does it take you to get the ball in the hole.  On average how many putts per green?

Figure out what is keeping you from making no worse than bogey on every hole.  Don't go to the range and just beat driver.  Work on what is costing you strokes.  

If you are a true 15.4 handicap, you obviously have some sense of playing the game.  Don't worry about trying to par every hole.  Work to make no worse than bogey on each hole.  Then the occasional par or birdie will creep in and before you know it...you will improve.  Most people I know in your handicap range are not good at getting the ball close to the hole if they miss a green thus not giving them a par opportunity.  Oh and BTW, you don't have to chip with a PW/SW/LW all the time.  sometimes a putting stroke with say an 8 iron will serve your better.  

[tadpole87]

6 hours ago, Shindig said:

First, welcome to TST.  Hopefully we can help you with your game.

One thing you want to do is figure out where you're losing strokes and where the most meaningful strokes to reduce can come from.  Do you measure strokes gained in any way?  If nothing else, next time you play, write down how close to the hole (estimates are fine if they're reasonable accurate) you start each green and putts taken.  We can use that to see if there's some low hanging fruit to drop your scores (there was for me).  Or maybe you're an expert putter already and we need to work on your full swing.

Second, if this is a hole by hole match, do you use your strokes wisely?  Similar question for medal play.

For example, when I'm playing match play, if I get a stroke on a hole and my opponent hits first, that will affect my decision for my tee shot.  I remember an opponent a few years ago hitting one O.B. off the tee on a hole where I was getting a shot and where it was a tight driving hole anyway, but where in stroke play, I'd already need driver and a wood to get to the green in two.  Of course, if he were middle of the fairway, I'd have to give myself a chance for that.  Into my bag went my driver, out came a hybrid.  I figured even if I hit a poor shot with the hybrid, I'd be better off after three shots than he would be by enough that I'd win the hole, and that by hitting driver, I'd risk refusing advantage.  

By contrast, on that same hole in a different match, I remember hitting a tee shot into the trees and watching my opponent pull his driver and follow me into them, despite him getting a stroke there.

Note that hitting driver on that hole is best (unless you have a very wild dispersion) for expected lower score over time.  However, in the first example, 5 and even likely 6 would have the same effect for me.  That's obviously not true in stroke play.

Hi, I normally play match play. I do admit I get nervous when I’m up winning and there are 3 more holes left and I would some how manage to either find the water or OB the tee shot. 

The course I play are surrounded by trees and water. So tee off accuracy is a must. Certain days I can drive really well and some days I just can’t hit the driver at all. It could be a slice one day and a hook the other day. My game is so inconsistent. If the driver is working the irons are not and so is the opposite.

I tend to waste alot of strokes on par 3s. Make doubles. All the par 3 are about 160-170meter with water hazard or really high bunkers. You have to carry the ball a minimum 150meter to clear the water and I do get nervous. 
 

[tadpole87]

4 minutes ago, RickK said:

Keep statistics.  Are you losing strokes because of your driver being wild?  Are you missing greens?  If you miss a green, how many strokes does it take you to get the ball in the hole.  On average how many putts per green?

Figure out what is keeping you from making no worse than bogey on every hole.  Don't go to the range and just beat driver.  Work on what is costing you strokes.  

If you are a true 15.4 handicap, you obviously have some sense of playing the game.  Don't worry about trying to par every hole.  Work to make no worse than bogey on each hole.  Then the occasional par or birdie will creep in and before you know it...you will improve.  Most people I know in your handicap range are not good at getting the ball close to the hole if they miss a green thus not giving them a par opportunity.  Oh and BTW, you don't have to chip with a PW/SW/LW all the time.  sometimes a putting stroke with say an 8 iron will serve your better.  

Hi RickK,

I do keep stats on my game. I normally play bogey golf and I tend to miss green a lot. Its normally green side I would have to chip and 1 putt to make par. The course I play I think its rather long playing at 6,700 yards. Rating 72.8/149 and Im not a big hitter. My average drives around 200-220m if I hit it good. I try to play it safe by avoiding hazard off the tee but just sometimes the ball just finds it way there. and my weakness is def a meltdown after hitting triples or doubles in a row. my average scores are in the mid 90s and best score 86. 

[Shindig]

9 minutes ago, tadpole87 said:

I tend to waste alot of strokes on par 3s. Make doubles. All the par 3 are about 160-170meter with water hazard or really high bunkers. You have to carry the ball a minimum 150meter to clear the water and I do get nervous. 
 

Par 3s are hard.  Let's start with that.

Are you playing the same course regularly?  Then you probably know what shot you need off the tees on the par-3s.   And I'll bet, from your score relative to your handicap on these holes, that you're aiming at the flag at some point.

Don't go for the flag.  Read through this thread I'm about to link to and notice the difference in  how the low handicaps respond to the original post and how the higher handicaps respond. 

The guy who started that thread, by the way, set a course record in 1997, shooting a 63 during a round of the PGA Tour's qualifying tournament.  He hit all 18 greens in regulation that day.

Okay, now that you're back from reading that, I want you to think about this:  for each par-3 you typically play, what shot do you need to give yourself the best chance of being on the green, or at least putter-in-hand, for your second shot?  When you go to the range, don't just hit balls;  every practice ball should be part of a plan.  Reserve a dozen for the end and practice your tee shots for each par-3 (rehearsal swings and all) the next few times you hit a bucket.  You might see those double bogeys turn into bogeys and pars next time you're out there.

I had the above typed out when this came in:

2 minutes ago, tadpole87 said:

I normally play bogey golf and I tend to miss green a lot. Its normally green side I would have to chip and 1 putt to make par. The course I play I think its rather long playing at 6,700 yards. Rating 72.8/149 and Im not a big hitter. My average drives around 200-220m if I hit it good. I try to play it safe by avoiding hazard off the tee but just sometimes the ball just finds it way there. and my weakness is def a meltdown after hitting triples or doubles in a row. my average scores are in the mid 90s and best score 86. 

Holy moly, can you move up a set of tees?  6700 yards, 72.8 / 149 is... a lot, especially that slope rating.

[tadpole87]

5 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Par 3s are hard.  Let's start with that.

Are you playing the same course regularly?  Then you probably know what shot you need off the tees on the par-3s.   And I'll bet, from your score relative to your handicap on these holes, that you're aiming at the flag at some point.

Don't go for the flag.  Read through this thread I'm about to link to and notice the difference in  how the low handicaps respond to the original post and how the higher handicaps respond. 

The guy who started that thread, by the way, set a course record in 1997, shooting a 63 during a round of the PGA Tour's qualifying tournament.  He hit all 18 greens in regulation that day.

Okay, now that you're back from reading that, I want you to think about this:  for each par-3 you typically play, what shot do you need to give yourself the best chance of being on the green, or at least putter-in-hand, for your second shot?  When you go to the range, don't just hit balls;  every practice ball should be part of a plan.  Reserve a dozen for the end and practice your tee shots for each par-3 (rehearsal swings and all) the next few times you hit a bucket.  You might see those double bogeys turn into bogeys and pars next time you're out there.

I had the above typed out when this came in:

Holy moly, can you move up a set of tees?  6700 yards, 72.8 / 149 is... a lot, especially that slope rating.

 

6 minutes ago, Shindig said:

Par 3s are hard.  Let's start with that.

Are you playing the same course regularly?  Then you probably know what shot you need off the tees on the par-3s.   And I'll bet, from your score relative to your handicap on these holes, that you're aiming at the flag at some point.

Don't go for the flag.  Read through this thread I'm about to link to and notice the difference in  how the low handicaps respond to the original post and how the higher handicaps respond. 

The guy who started that thread, by the way, set a course record in 1997, shooting a 63 during a round of the PGA Tour's qualifying tournament.  He hit all 18 greens in regulation that day.

Okay, now that you're back from reading that, I want you to think about this:  for each par-3 you typically play, what shot do you need to give yourself the best chance of being on the green, or at least putter-in-hand, for your second shot?  When you go to the range, don't just hit balls;  every practice ball should be part of a plan.  Reserve a dozen for the end and practice your tee shots for each par-3 (rehearsal swings and all) the next few times you hit a bucket.  You might see those double bogeys turn into bogeys and pars next time you're out there.

I had the above typed out when this came in:

Holy moly, can you move up a set of tees?  6700 yards, 72.8 / 149 is... a lot, especially that slope rating.

yes I do admit I aim at the flag 90 percent of the time. The par3s are hard and the sand bunkers are like beach sand. Ok ill practice those shots are the range. thank you! when I do tell my friends to move up the tees they ask me to wear a skirt. 

I can shoot in the high 80s at my home course regularly that is a course 70.1/127. But I have none of my friends that are able to play there and its only exclusive to members only due to the golf craze and covid situation here. So the only course I can play is their home course which allows guest. 

[Shindig]

2 minutes ago, tadpole87 said:

yes I do admit I aim at the flag 90 percent of the time. The par3s are hard and the sand bunkers are like beach sand. Ok ill practice those shots are the range. thank you! when I do tell my friends to move up the tees they ask me to wear a skirt. 

I can shoot in the high 80s at my home course regularly that is a course 70.1/127. But I have none of my friends that are able to play there and its only exclusive to members only due to the golf craze and covid situation here. So the only course I can play is their home course which allows guest. 

If my friends told me to wear a skirt for playing up from a 6700 yards on a 149 slope rating, I'd find different friends.  But that's a different topic.

70.1/127 is far more reasonable for our level of play.

[tadpole87]

1 minute ago, Shindig said:

If my friends told me to wear a skirt for playing up from a 6700 yards on a 149 slope rating, I'd find different friends.  But that's a different topic.

70.1/127 is far more reasonable for our level of play.

hahaha yeah I think I should. I guess I have to practice even harder now. thank you for the advice. 

[boogielicious]

12 hours ago, tadpole87 said:

tend to waste alot of strokes on par 3s. Make doubles. All the par 3 are about 160-170meter with water hazard or really high bunkers. You have to carry the ball a minimum 150meter to clear the water and I do get nervous. 

Par 3 holes are hard. Especially if they are 170+ meters. You can start by working on these at the range as a focus for a couple of weeks. Focus on making a smooth swings and good contact and don’t try to swing too hard. Get a rhythm down. Make this you par 3 tee rhythm. Most other holes you are using driver. These holes are iron or fairway/hybrid tee holes.

For each hole, examine it and see where the best place to miss is located. If there is water front, and bunkers left and right front, the maybe long is the best miss. Then pick the club that will carry over the water, bunkers. 

The book Lowest Score Wins explains all this. If you can, I highly recommend purchasing it. It also explains where to focus your practice to help you score lower. 
 

[tadpole87]

34 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Par 3 holes are hard. Especially if they are 170+ meters. You can start by working on these at the range as a focus for a couple of weeks. Focus on making a smooth swings and good contact and don’t try to swing too hard. Get a rhythm down. Make this you par 3 tee rhythm. Most other holes you are using driver. These holes are iron or fairway/hybrid tee holes.

For each hole, examine it and see where the best place to miss is located. If there is water front, and bunkers left and right front, the maybe long is the best miss. Then pick the club that will carry over the water, bunkers. 

The book Lowest Score Wins explains all this. If you can, I highly recommend purchasing it. It also explains where to focus your practice to help you score lower. 
 

Yes I always struggle with par 3 tend to hit it hard and often ends with a pull or a hook. I will sure practice on smooth swings. Thank you for the recommendation on the book. Will check it out !