Favorite U.S. Links Course?

[jamo]

1 hour ago, cdb said:

Fenwick in CT.  I played here quite a bit when I used to go to Old Saybrook on business trips, and they call themselves a links course. It is on "links" land, but there are trees:

 

Welcome to our Site!!

 

Fenwick is actually about 15 minutes from me. It's an extremely fun course, some of the most enjoyable golf you can play for $20-$40, but it's in no way a links course. I will grant them that it is often quite windy and they do get it playing pretty firm and fast, but the course isn't played on the ground. Even if you wanted to, there are too many fronting bunkers, a long carry over water, etc.

Here's the view from the back tee on the 4th hole, for instance:

[cdb]

8 minutes ago, jamo said:

Fenwick is actually about 15 minutes from me. It's an extremely fun course, some of the most enjoyable golf you can play for $20-$40, but it's in no way a links course. I will grant them that it is often quite windy and they do get it playing pretty firm and fast, but the course isn't played on the ground. Even if you wanted to, there are too many fronting bunkers, a long carry over water, etc.

Here's the view from the back tee on the 4th hole, for instance:

Like I said they call it a links course, but it definitely isn't. And yes, it is extremely fun to play! And you can see Katherine Hepburns house too.

[jamo]

1 hour ago, cdb said:

Like I said they call it a links course, but it definitely isn't. And yes, it is extremely fun to play! And you can see Katherine Hepburns house too.

(Sorry, didn't mean to jump on you about it, meant to jump on them about it.)

[dman1260]

Exact definition aside, some of my favorites are:

1) Pacific Dunes 

2) Back 9 of Pacific Grove 

3) Rustic Canyon - this is probably the biggest stretch to call a links course...

 

[Chris Brooks]

I played Bandon / Pacific / Old Mac last month and will play all three Streamsong courses end of this month. I’ll report soon. I love loved Old Mac. 

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, Chris Brooks said:

I played Bandon / Pacific / Old Mac last month and will play all three Streamsong courses end of this month. I’ll report soon. I love loved Old Mac. 

Streamsong ain't a links course. None of the three.

It's not near an ocean. It's not firm/fast.

[steelied]

Links-ish… Old Mac. 
 

The other Bandon courses are definitely not links courses. Ton of fun tho! 

[Chris Brooks]

Sounds like we are arriving at a binary definition of a links course. I guess I think on spectrums, especially when thinking about US courses. Though I can buy the “if not by the ocean then out of the discussion” qualification.

So why is Old Mac the only one close to being a links course at Bandon?

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Chris Brooks said:

Sounds like we are arriving at a binary definition of a links course.

Says who? Says the guy who called Streamsong courses "links"?

Links doesn't mean "few trees." Oakmont is not a "links" course.

You can debate the other parts - how close to water it has to be (whether that water has to be salty), how firm/fast it plays, the design of the course… - but "links" isn't just a synonym for "few trees."

[mdl]

Only links courses I've played are at Bandon, which I love! Favorite there honestly is probably Bandon Trails, which is the non-links course. Favorite links is Pacific Dunes.

18 hours ago, steelied said:

Links-ish… Old Mac.

The other Bandon courses are definitely not links courses. Ton of fun tho! 

This doesn't make sense to me. Bandon Trails has some linksy holes but clearly isn't a links course. But Pacific, Bandon Dunes, and Sheep Ranch are all very similar in style to Old Mac. On cliff, can play on the ground when it's not soaking wet, no trees, lots of natural gorse and long grass, fairways and greens nearly indistinguishable, bumps, wind, gorse (where there is some), and geography (ahem... cliffs) are the course's biggest defenses.

On 11/6/2021 at 4:03 PM, Chris Brooks said:

I played Bandon / Pacific / Old Mac last month and will play all three Streamsong courses end of this month. I’ll report soon. I love loved Old Mac. 

Interesting! Almost everyone I know likes Old Mac the least! I'm interested why you liked it most!

On 9/25/2021 at 3:22 PM, Vespidae said:

I don't really want to travel to Oregon or the UK, so let's just limit the options to the USA. Thanks.

Ummm. I live in Portland, OR. I'm pretty sure I live in the USA 😆

Edited November 8, 2021 by mdl

[Chris Brooks]

23 hours ago, iacas said:

Says who? Says the guy who called Streamsong courses "links"?

I haven't played there yet, so I'm going off what I've read in my research. There are more than a few that have put at least one or two of the Streamsong courses in the links category (links-ish as @steelied said)?

Some attributes that I think nudge Streamsong towards links include:

• Built on sandy soil, including big-a$$ dunes
• Designed to be walkable
• Halfway point is away from clubhouse
• Designed to play along the ground (mostly) with very few forced carries. @iacassays it is not firm and fast and I think he's played there, so I trust his judgment. I've read otherwise but will wait to experience it myself.
• Often windswept

All this said, I get it that a purist isn't going to call these links. They aren't parkland either, or desert, or stadium. Is prairie or heathland in the taxonomy? 🤷🏼‍♂️ Maybe that's where they fit. Or maybe there's a category that includes the Australian sandbelt courses and these belong there. Or maybe taxonomies like this are useless, though humans like to group things into categories.

Regardless... I can't wait to play them in a few weeks.

Hey @mdl, I was in Portland area for over 20 years and just moved away in early 2020. Sherwood for 15 years and closed out our time there in Beaverton.

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Chris Brooks said:

• Built on sandy soil, including big-a$$ dunes

It may be "sandy" soil but it's not firm/fast like a links course. I had a discussion with Tom and the super there about that. You can't bounce the ball up onto the greens or play much of a ground game there.

So to me, Sand Valley and Mammoth Dunes is more of a "links" course than any course at Streamsong. They're all kinda in the middle of the state, but SV/MD play firm/fast and are built on sand. Streamsong plays soft but is built on sand.

1 hour ago, Chris Brooks said:

• Designed to play along the ground (mostly) with very few forced carries. @iacassays it is not firm and fast and I think he's played there, so I trust his judgment. I've read otherwise but will wait to experience it myself.

Yeah, it's not. In the words of Tom Doak… 
 

Quote

Have you ever played a course in Florida that had really bouncy fairways?  I don't think I have.  In general, comparing Bermuda fairways to the conditions in St. Andrews is asking a lot.  The bermuda is much more aggressive in building roots and thatch than fescue is.  The only way you could keep it that firm would be to verticut about every week, which no resort is going to do in high season.

I love it when the surface gets bouncy, and holes like #11 and #18 really shine when it does.  But I can't expect for it to be bouncy in Florida on a regular basis.

So there's another reason not to call it links: it uses Bermuda grass.

1 hour ago, Chris Brooks said:

All this said, I get it that a purist isn't going to call these links. They aren't parkland either, or desert, or stadium.

Links isn't a measure of trees. 🙂 It's a measure of the conditions at least, and most of those are affected by the location of actual links courses.

[steelied]

On 11/8/2021 at 3:03 PM, mdl said:

 

This doesn't make sense to me. Bandon Trails has some linksy holes but clearly isn't a links course. But Pacific, Bandon Dunes, and Sheep Ranch are all very similar in style to Old Mac. On cliff, can play on the ground when it's not soaking wet, no trees, lots of natural gorse and long grass, fairways and greens nearly indistinguishable, bumps, wind, gorse (where there is some), and geography (ahem... cliffs) are the course's biggest defenses.

 

Hey @mdl. Just my opinion and take it for the very little that it’s worth… other than Old Mac, I feel like the courses at Bandon even though they do have that “links-ish” feel, are pretty target golf oriented. Particularly Pacific. Haven’t been there in awhile so I don’t know about Sheep. Again, just my opinion. YMMV. 
 

cheers! 

[Double Mocha Man]

19 minutes ago, steelied said:

... they do have that “links-ish” feel, are pretty target golf oriented.

I might be missing something here, but isn't every course "target oriented"?

[Double Mocha Man]

On 9/25/2021 at 3:22 PM, Vespidae said:

I don't really want to travel to Oregon or the UK, so let's just limit the options to the USA. Thanks.

PS. I have played Pebble Beach, so let's table that one for now. It was fabulous.

Good one!  I'll text Governor Brown and let her know you said that.

It's Pebble Beach Golf Links but I don't consider it a true links course.

[mdl]

16 hours ago, steelied said:

Hey @mdl. Just my opinion and take it for the very little that it’s worth… other than Old Mac, I feel like the courses at Bandon even though they do have that “links-ish” feel, are pretty target golf oriented. Particularly Pacific. Haven’t been there in awhile so I don’t know about Sheep. Again, just my opinion. YMMV. 
 

cheers! 

Fair enough. I've never played any courses on the Scottish coast so it's not like I have a gold standard to compare against. I don't disagree there are some holes on Pacific where, say, ground game isn't a real option.

Sheep is super fun. Not super hard. But a bunch of interesting and fun holes, and spectacularly beautiful throughout. Also, none of the gorse has grown in so you might think of it as more links-y.

[phan52]

I think the turf is essential to what is really a links golf course. It should be fescue because that is the turf you will find on the seaside courses in the UK and Ireland. The OP said that he doesn't want to travel to Oregon (I can attest that it is very hard to get to) but the courses at Bandon are hard by the Pacific Ocean and fit the turf criteria. Pacific Dunes may be the most fun golf course I have ever played and I have played a lot in the British Isles. I love links golf but I will say, as much fun as the place is, I am hesitant to go back to Bandon. It is far easier for me to travel to the UK and Ireland from the east coast and the choice of fun links courses is innumerable.