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g-funk13

Masters: Tradition and Snobbery

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You sir and full of compost. And I am glad that we aren't like LA or NY....people around here still say hello on the street, offer help to a stranger, and still have manners.

You defend the South about its ways but bash NY and LA? That's quite comical.

Aren't you making the same EXACT ASSUMPTIONS that you just defended?

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In response to the original post:

Realize what TV will always be: a money maker. You're always going to see sports try to capitalize on rivalries even though there might not be much of one. Networks would love it if there was a Nicklaus/Palmer type rivalry these days (which really wasn't a rivalry for long).

Its just TV. An informed viewer and golf fan knows that Phil hasn't been able to touch Tiger's success.

Incidentally, I think it is at least notable that Phil has two and Tiger has four Masters.

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The holy grail is the British Open. Snobbery is an entitlement there.

The others are interlopers.

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It is commonly known that the South is more hospitable and friendly than those in the North. Are there exceptions to the rule? Yep.

Back on topic now guys. I'm just as guilty, but Basher has been sufficiently bashed now... so let's get back.

I think The Masters is less about "snobbery" and more about "aspiration." We all wish we were members at Augusta.

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Just to defend myself, i don't think that my posts have been idiotic at all. If this is what happens when somebody freely expresses himself then I'm not sure that we can call the sandtrap a discussion forum, more of an appreciation society not willing to listen to others views...the language used in the recent Monty thread by a moderator and the tone shows its one rule for one and something else for the rest of us.

We re not all kids on here, some of us are well educated people just killing time so im not prepared to be patroonised by anybody.

The truth hurts....there are millions of people who believe what i believe so it can't be just some unsubstantiated rumour.

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Just to defend myself, i don't think that my posts have been idiotic at all. If this is what happens when somebody freely expresses himself then I'm not sure that we can call the sandtrap a discussion forum, more of an appreciation society not willing to listen to others views...the language used in the recent Monty thread by a moderator and the tone shows its one rule for one and something else for the rest of us.

First, you have to realize that ESPN is hyping their stake in the tourny by putting Tiger and Phil against each other. Just because ESPN says does not implicate the National and its members. Second, just because the National is located in the South, you assume that its members are racist hicks and surely didn't like putting the jacket on Tiger. Hogwash. Most of the members of the National are not from the South and some of them are the most charitable people in the world. Bill Gates ring a bell? The policy of the National does not preclude anyone by race or gender, only that they have to be unaniminously approved by membership. Just because millions of people believe anything, it can still be a rumor until proven with facts. Your statements are about as ignorant as people who used to think that the world was flat. You just don't know any better. Come on down and I will show you what the South and Augusta is all about......

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Just to defend myself, i don't think that my posts have been idiotic at all. If this is what happens when somebody freely expresses himself then I'm not sure that we can call the sandtrap a discussion forum, more of an appreciation society not willing to listen to others views...the language used in the recent Monty thread by a moderator and the tone shows its one rule for one and something else for the rest of us.

So what if millions of people believe everyone in the South is racist? It's still not true. You can not expect to make a statement on any internet forum stereotyping an entire region of the world as racist and not have to deal with any negative fallout.

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OK, im bashed but not beaten!

Your comments and attitude that all Southerners are racist and have prehistoric beliefs is ridiculous. About the same as saying everyone from England have bad teeth and act like Austin Powers.

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I have not seen this commercial personally. But to me it sounds like its just showcasing the Worlds #1 and #2 guys! They are competitors and both have had great success at the Masters.

Again, I have not seen the commercial, but just because Tiger is NOT shown by himself with others around him doing an act of worship, doesnt mean they are attempting to belittle his accomplishments.
That would make golf and Augusta quite boring if everyone quit and admitted that Tiger is going to win everything.

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Second, just because the National is located in the South, you assume that its members are racist hicks and surely didn't like putting the jacket on Tiger. Hogwash. Most of the members of the National are not from the South and some of them are the most charitable people in the world. Bill Gates ring a bell? The policy of the National does not preclude anyone by race or gender, only that they have to be unaniminously approved by membership.

Hacker

I have a few questions for you regarding this post. One, how come Augusta does not allow female members? I'm fully aware that women are allowed to play the course as guests. Isn't that a direct contradiction to the policy you stated? No 2, I find it hard for you to admonish anyone who thinks that Augusta does not have members who have racists views. Explain why they made it so difficult for Charlie Stafford to play Augusta? Lastly, I'm not going to be ignorant and make negative assumptions. However, don't insult people's intelligence by generalizing that all members are tolerant of people of color and women. It's obvious that's not the case.

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I don't think that theres anything wrong with a stiff upper lip- thats what golf used to be about- Country Clubs are about this...standards are falling as the game is being opened up

I think your take on the American deep south is a bit skewed. This is 2008 not 1960. And Tiger is not all black to begin with. And to say they would rather give the green jacket to Vijay than Tiger is ridiculous. If they are ignorant enough to judge another human being by their skin color do you really think they are going to split hairs on something like what kind of black person he is? Come on have a small clue about what you are talking about before you make inflamatory remarks about something you obviously know nothing about. As far as snobbery or tradition, golf has both. I personally see no problem with dress codes at golf courses nor do I have issue with private clubs. If you have the money you go join your club.

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Hacker

Number one, the National does not have a policy prohibiting membership to any person based on race, sex or religion. The fact is it is a private club and the membership decides who is offered membership. It is a tight fraternity of members and they decide who they choose to fraternize with. If you don't like it, build your own course. Someone here in Augusta did that and built a course to rival the National....but you can't buy tradition. Number two, please provide proof of racism by anyone associated with the National. If you can't, you are basing everything off of rumor and hearsay. If that is the best you got, I have no more time for you. Innocent until proven guilty. Please document the hardships of Charlie Stafford. You are invited to play the course or in the tourny.....that is all I can say about that. And lastly, I am not insulting anyone's intelligence. It is others on this forum that make broad, stereotypical comments without one shred of fact to back their statements up. Just because you scream that the sky is purple, does not make it purple. Do I think that there may be members that have racist inclinations, probably so. Can I prove that? Nope, that is a totally different thing and if you can't prove it, you can't sling allegations and hope they stick. If you did that to a particular person, it would be called slander and you would be held liable in a court of law. Unless you have proof, you are just full of compost and are not worth arguing with. Have a good one! I will be thinking about you when I am having a pimento cheese sandwich in the stands on number 16.

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All I know is that it's the most beautiful golf course I've ever had the privilege to experience. If there's a golf course in Heaven, I would expect it to be Augusta National. :)

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Number one, the National does not have a policy prohibiting membership to any person based on race, sex or religion. The fact is it is a private club and the membership decides who is offered membership. It is a tight fraternity of members and they decide who they choose to fraternize with. If you don't like it, build your own course. Someone here in Augusta did that and built a course to rival the National....but you can't buy tradition.

I can't believe you are this naive. Let me be clear. I fully understand that Augusta is a private course. That said, the club's policy for membership is men only. Is that so difficult for you to understand? For you to say that's it's policy is not to prohibit inclusion based on gender is WRONG. I can't believe you're even defending this.

No 2 you said, in a previous post, that there is no racism at Augusta. How can you prove that? Can you? Of course you can't. That was my rebuttal. You can't prove something you don't know. Augusta, at one point, did not allow black members. It also made it difficult for black Tour players. This is a fact. How much proof do you need? Do you want me to send Lee Elder to your home? Full of compost. Yes, your dad was a member and you love the place. Just don't act like a homer and be blind to its attitude towards women and people of color.

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Everyone just needs to simmer down a bit. The bottom line is they are a private club and legally within their right to admit or refuse whoever they want. Can you image how hard it is to get 300 people to unanimously vote on anything? The club even can throw you out if you don't believe in the same ideology as them, now that's messed up. If it bothers you the way the club is run, turn off the tv next week, don't support the event, heck organize a rally or call Martha Burke. I know I will be glued to the TV not thinking one bit about politics, hoping Tiger gives me some more highlights.

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Note: This thread is 4316 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!
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