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Club Shallowing/Laid Off at the Top


cbrister
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I have been seeing an instructor for about a year. I go whenever I get a little extra cash so I could stand to go see him more. I tend to be laid off at the top of my backswing and past horizontal, so we’re working on me going too far the other way. He would rather me be across the line at the top than laid off. My question is how do I shallow the club while being across the line. I already am way too steep in the downswing. Doesn’t being across the line at the top make it even steeper?

What's in the bag...
Driver: :macgregor: Jack Nicklaus persimmon driver
Irons: :mizuno: MP33 forged blades, 3-PW
Putter: :seemore: FGP
Ball: :pinnacle: Pinnacle Gold....or whatever I happen to find while digging around in the bushes :-)

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It tends to lead to the opposite.

Consider that right now you're already too shallow, so you react by steepening in the downswing.

When you go steeper in the backswing, the tendency of many/most is to then shallow in the downswing.

I'd recommend updating/reviving this:

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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2 minutes ago, iacas said:

It tends to lead to the opposite.

Consider that right now you're already too shallow, so you react by steepening in the downswing.

When you go steeper in the backswing, the tendency of many/most is to then shallow in the downswing.

So it will naturally shallow or am I supposed to be doing something?

What's in the bag...
Driver: :macgregor: Jack Nicklaus persimmon driver
Irons: :mizuno: MP33 forged blades, 3-PW
Putter: :seemore: FGP
Ball: :pinnacle: Pinnacle Gold....or whatever I happen to find while digging around in the bushes :-)

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11 minutes ago, cbrister said:

So it will naturally shallow or am I supposed to be doing something?

It depends.

Some players go steeper. The tendency is to shallow a bit, but if it was "natural" for everyone, then… everyone would be taught to swing that way.

At the end of the day the plane on which you're swinging had better intersect with the golf ball. When it's shallow it has to steepen to get there, and when it's steep it has to shallow to get there.

I've also seen people go from steep to shallow to steep again all between A3.5 and A7 (impact).

It's not so "steep" she misses the ball of course, but the club definitely gets "torqued" over the top a little mid-downswing.

The player in the video above "makes" the club shallow, and in doing so, probably over-does it, requiring the late "steepening" you see there.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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@cbrister  You were a broke college student back in 2014.  Hoping you are now in a successful career.  And your girlfriend is no longer commenting on your swing.  😄

Just a toss-in here.  A lot of instruction would have you draw a line from your left hand, down the arm, through your shoulder so that it was essentially pointing to the ball at the top of the swing.  Yours points way over the top of the ball, almost a baseball swing set-up.  Did you play a lot of baseball, before golf?

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13 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

@cbrister  You were a broke college student back in 2014.  Hoping you are now in a successful career.  And your girlfriend is no longer commenting on your swing.  😄

Just a toss-in here.  A lot of instruction would have you draw a line from your left hand, down the arm, through your shoulder so that it was essentially pointing to the ball at the top of the swing.  Yours points way over the top of the ball, almost a baseball swing set-up.  Did you play a lot of baseball, before golf?

Haha now I’m just a broke adult!
 

I actually never played baseball at all. I played basketball. That’s just how my swing has always been. It’s just what I naturally did, probably trying to swing too hard. 

What's in the bag...
Driver: :macgregor: Jack Nicklaus persimmon driver
Irons: :mizuno: MP33 forged blades, 3-PW
Putter: :seemore: FGP
Ball: :pinnacle: Pinnacle Gold....or whatever I happen to find while digging around in the bushes :-)

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14 minutes ago, cbrister said:

Haha now I’m just a broke adult!
 

I actually never played baseball at all. I played basketball. That’s just how my swing has always been. It’s just what I naturally did, probably trying to swing too hard. 

Well, when it comes to instruction, listen to Iacas... he knows what he's talking about.  He's written a book, gives professional lessons and is an owner, user and implementer for other golfers of the GEARS Golf system, an optical motion tracking system for the golf swing.

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  • Moderator

So does the saying better to shallow early and steepen late still hold? Or does it all just depend?

Steve

Kill slow play. Allow walking. Reduce ineffective golf instruction. Use environmentally friendly course maintenance.

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3 hours ago, nevets88 said:

So does the saying better to shallow early and steepen late still hold? Or does it all just depend?

I don't think I've heard that one.

I have heard "You have to shallow it early or shallow it late." I don't entirely agree with that one either, though.

Also…

5 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

A lot of instruction would have you draw a line from your left hand, down the arm, through your shoulder so that it was essentially pointing to the ball at the top of the swing.

Eh?

Rory_Tiger.jpg

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

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39 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

My "essentially" allows for about 12 inches.  Was trying to give Mr. Brister an image in his mind to counteract his left arm pointing about 6 feet out from the ball.

Yeah, that doesn't seem to be a thing, really. More upright players get closer to the ball (even inside it slightly), but…

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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  • 10 months later...

I keep getting this image at the top of my feed on a news website and it is bothering me:

image.thumb.png.4bfdc2ef02b0829f684e78e74f0309c2.png

 

Looks like she is set up for a dead pull. Is that a likely outcome of this laid off position at the top?

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17 hours ago, Carl3 said:

Looks like she is set up for a dead pull. Is that a likely outcome of this laid off position at the top?

Most likely. Or she could drop it down inside (far less likely), or fail to close the face enough with the pull move and hit a weak blocky cut.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Yeah remember when Tigs was super laid off (for him) at the top and was hitting all those disgusting pushes?

Colin P.

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On 11/15/2022 at 4:54 AM, iacas said:

Most likely. Or she could drop it down inside (far less likely), or fail to close the face enough with the pull move and hit a weak blocky cut.

How is this not a more flexible woman without different length legs version of Rahm? Is the assumption just that as an ad image that's supposed to represent amateur golfers who mostly don't build great golf swings being laid off at the top?

Matt

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1 hour ago, mdl said:

How is this not a more flexible woman without different length legs version of Rahm? Is the assumption just that as an ad image that's supposed to represent amateur golfers who mostly don't build great golf swings being laid off at the top?

Because almost nobody swings like Jon Rahm?

And because Rahm's swing is much shorter.

image.jpeg

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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On 11/18/2022 at 3:38 PM, iacas said:

Because almost nobody swings like Jon Rahm?

And because Rahm's swing is much shorter.

image.jpeg

Is Rahm's swing actually all that short when looking at his shoulder turn?

Colin P.

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