Two Things Holding Me Back

[RandyBobbitt]

I've recently realized there are two things preventing me from becoming a better golfer (I'm a low-80s player but feel I should be in the high-70s):

1) Putting. I'm good with short putts (making everything within 5 feet) and long putts (mostly two-putting from 40 feet or longer). Where I struggle is from mid-range -- 10 to 30 feet. I come up short (even putting downhill) much more often than I run it past. I know it's mostly due to decelerating on the forward stroke, but I don't know how to get out of this rut. I feel like it's costing me 3 to 5 shots per round. The old "imagine a three-foot circle around the hole" drill hasn't worked. 

2) Iron play with in-between yardages. I'm a good iron player when I have an exact number, but I really struggle when in between clubs. I've tried taking the longer club and either choking down an inch and/or taking a shorter swing, but haven't seen any consistent results -- I'm still either long or short. Taking the shorter club and hitting it harder? That makes it worse.  This is costing me another two or three shots per round. 

Any suggestions? 

[ChetlovesMer]

2 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

I've recently realized there are two things preventing me from becoming a better golfer (I'm a low-80s player but feel I should be in the high-70s):

1) Putting. I'm good with short putts (making everything within 5 feet) and long putts (mostly two-putting from 40 feet or longer). Where I struggle is from mid-range -- 10 to 30 feet. I come up short (even putting downhill) much more often than I run it past. I know it's mostly due to decelerating on the forward stroke, but I don't know how to get out of this rut. I feel like it's costing me 3 to 5 shots per round. The old "imagine a three-foot circle around the hole" drill hasn't worked. 

2) Iron play with in-between yardages. I'm a good iron player when I have an exact number, but I really struggle when in between clubs. I've tried taking the longer club and either choking down an inch and/or taking a shorter swing, but haven't seen any consistent results -- I'm still either long or short. Taking the shorter club and hitting it harder? That makes it worse.  This is costing me another two or three shots per round. 

Any suggestions? 

I have a few. Remember, I'm just one guy, and I'm going off what you've written above. Remember to be honest with yourself, and to be fair to yourself. 

1. Firstly, I suggest keeping some stats. Ideally something like Arccos. Having some strokes gained stats will tell you how different areas of your game compare to the handicap you want to achieve. We've all met the golfer who says "I'm a great putter", or "I'm great off the tee" but he/she isn't. I'm not saying that's you, but having some stats to see where you are relative to where you want to be will not only tell you what areas need improvement, but also by how much.                                                                                                                             
2. Secondly, just so I understand, are you saying you make everything from inside of 5 feet, but when you hit a 10 to 30 foot putt you can't get it within five feet? .... Or are you saying you don't make enough 10 to 30 footers? Because if its the second thing, you may as well forget about it. From 10 to 30 feet, your goal should be to 2-putt every time. If you make one, bonus. But don't fret over not making enough 10-30 footers.                                                                                                                                                                                                               
3. Thirdly, you are probably over thinking the in-between yardage thing. For example for me a 7-iron is about 160 and my 6-iron is about 175. Let's assume the pin is 168 out. Right between clubs. Here's my advice. Don't over think it. If there's more room behind the flag, hit the 6-iron. More room in front of the flag hit the 7-iron. Of course, if its with or against the wind, then Mother Nature makes your club selection for you. If you want to take a little off the 6-iron choke down and inch. DON'T make a different swing. Just choke down an inch and you'll take 5 yards off of it. So in my case 170ish instead of 175. That's close enough to 168. You are probably better off making a good swing with a club that's a little too long or a little too short than trying to get exactly the number of yards calculated.                                                                                                                                                                                            
4. Fourthly, if everything I said in point 3 is too much, just pick the club that's closest to the distance to the center of the green and forget about the flag. Again, making a good swing will do more for you than standing there like Bryson DeChambeau trying to calculate every single factor to hit an exact number. Just get the ball on the green.                                                           
5. Lastly, make it your goal to hit a solid shot. If your goal is to hit a 168 yard shot, then you hit a beautiful 163 yard shot, your ball will end up 15 feet short. At that point you have two options. Say to yourself "I just hit a beautiful shot. Not lets make a putt. Or make a quality chip. Which ever is required." Your your other option is to say "Dang, I wish I would have hit the ball 5 yards farther. Man, my iron play is holding me back." I'd suggest the former. 

Anyway, good luck. Hang in there. You are already playing better golf than 85% of the golfers on the planet. Keep working on it and let us know how it comes out. 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

1) Putting. I'm good with short putts (making everything within 5 feet) and long putts (mostly two-putting from 40 feet or longer). Where I struggle is from mid-range -- 10 to 30 feet. I come up short (even putting downhill) much more often than I run it past.

HIGHLY unlikely to be costing you even half of the ~4 shots you estimated.

6 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

I know it's mostly due to decelerating on the forward stroke…

6 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

I come up short (even putting downhill) much more often than I run it past.

From 10' you should get almost every putt to the hole (maybe not a rare yellow-light putt), but from 30' your distribution should be at the hole - the distance of the hole, not past it.

Anyway, it's still highly unlikely that you're losing anywhere near the shots you think you're losing here. (Even more unlikely if you're making even 95% of "everything inside 5 feet."

6 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

2) Iron play with in-between yardages. I'm a good iron player when I have an exact number, but I really struggle when in between clubs. I've tried taking the longer club and either choking down an inch and/or taking a shorter swing, but haven't seen any consistent results -- I'm still either long or short. Taking the shorter club and hitting it harder? That makes it worse.  This is costing me another two or three shots per round.

This is also highly doubtful (the 2-3 shots stuff, as well as the "good iron player when you have an exact number" stuff).

Greens are big enough, and I doubt your gaps are 15 yards or something. If you have 135 and your 8I is 140 and your 9I is 129… hit the 9I if the pin is back and hit the 8I if the pin is front. If it's in the middle, hit the shorter club if there's less trouble short, and the longer club if there's less trouble long.

Then play your number.

---

@RandyBobbitt, you've been a member here since 2014… so I presume you've read a few topics here even if you haven't posted in them. I think you need to:

• Get some stats.
• Begin to understand averages and manage expectations.

Even if you just get GIR and first putt distance with total # putts for each hole, it'll shed a lot of light on how you play relative to the level of your game.

I suspect, having seen thousands of this type of stuff, that you're not losing anywhere near the 5-8 shots per round from these two things that you think. I'd wager a lot of money that you're not even losing two full shots from these two things, and that there is much lower hanging fruit to be plucked.

[RandyBobbitt]

All of this is helpful. 

Regarding the idea about keeping statistics, I would probably benefit from doing so. My assumptions above were based mostly on anecdotal evidence. 

Regarding comment #2 about not getting my first putt within five feet . . . that happens often. If I miss a green and chip to within 5 feet or blast it from the sand to 5 feet, I'm going to make that 5-foot par putt almost every time. But if I have a 40-foot putt and leave it 5 feet short, it's still a par putt but I'm so flustered by hitting the first putt so poorly that I over-compensate on the second putt and knock it 3 feet past. So now I'm facing a 3-foot putt for bogey.  So I know a lot of this is in my head. 

I played nine holes today and three-putted once from 30 feet (first putt 6 feet short) and left two 15-foot putts a foot short but right on line. Assuming at least one of those would have gone in with a bit more aggressive stroke, that's two strokes lost from poor putting. I did have better results with the in-between clubs issue, however. I had two in-between shots and both times hit the longer iron but choked down a half-inch. Both ended up hole-high within 20 feet. 

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

Assuming at least one of those would have gone in

The PGA TOUR average for making putts 11-15’ is 30%. Start using a shot tracker. I think you’ll be surprised where your losing strokes.🙂

[iacas]

4 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

Assuming at least one of those would have gone in with a bit more aggressive stroke, that's two strokes lost from poor putting.

That’s not how those stats work. They track partial shots. When you two-putt from 15 feet, you don't lose a full shot because nobody makes 100% of those putts. You lose less than a quarter of a shot. The same is true on every shot in golf (except the one-inch putt that you somehow miss?) - you don't lose or gain full shots. The tee shot that settles into the rough at 260 is slightly worse than the shot that finishes 260 in the fairway. And so on.

4 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

I had two in-between shots and both times hit the longer iron but choked down a half-inch. Both ended up hole-high within 20 feet. 

So quite likely better than PGA Tour average?

Something about all of this just doesn't jive. Could you tell us what the yardages and results of all of your shots are for one 18-hole round?

[pganapathy]

5 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

All of this is helpful. 

Regarding the idea about keeping statistics, I would probably benefit from doing so. My assumptions above were based mostly on anecdotal evidence. 

Regarding comment #2 about not getting my first putt within five feet . . . that happens often. If I miss a green and chip to within 5 feet or blast it from the sand to 5 feet, I'm going to make that 5-foot par putt almost every time. But if I have a 40-foot putt and leave it 5 feet short, it's still a par putt but I'm so flustered by hitting the first putt so poorly that I over-compensate on the second putt and knock it 3 feet past. So now I'm facing a 3-foot putt for bogey.  So I know a lot of this is in my head. 

I played nine holes today and three-putted once from 30 feet (first putt 6 feet short) and left two 15-foot putts a foot short but right on line. Assuming at least one of those would have gone in with a bit more aggressive stroke, that's two strokes lost from poor putting. I did have better results with the in-between clubs issue, however. I had two in-between shots and both times hit the longer iron but choked down a half-inch. Both ended up hole-high within 20 feet. 

We are obviously chatting with a tour pro because there is no way a high single digit or lw double digit handicapper will make the strokes you are talking about on a regular basis.  In fact, you should consider that making these putts is luck more than anything else.  Do you really think you can hit an iron 123 yards or 127 or whatever.  Realistically you will have a variation of at least 5 if not 10 yards in your shots for any club.  I have to say that you have unrealistic expectations for what you can shoot

[klineka]

6 hours ago, RandyBobbitt said:

I played nine holes today and three-putted once from 30 feet (first putt 6 feet short) and left two 15-foot putts a foot short but right on line. Assuming at least one of those would have gone in with a bit more aggressive stroke, that's two strokes lost from poor putting. 

That's not really how putting and math/stats work though. 

Everyone is going to have a distribution of how far their putts go, with X percentage of them being short, X percentage that will have perfect pace and drip in the hole, and X percentage that will go past the hole. Just like with approach shots into the green, X percent are short of the flag, X percent are hole high, and X percent go beyond the flag.

That fact that you left back to back 15 footers short on different holes with different green speeds with different slopes, etc is not indicative of a putting stroke or speed issue (especially on a 2 putt sample size). Let's say you hit 100 identical 15 foot putts. You will leave a certain percentage of those putts short, that's simply a fact. In this particular round, you just happened to have 2 of those putts back to back. 

See how that likely is just a math/numbers thing rather than something actually being wrong with your stroke or speed?

[roejye]

A lot of this sounds mental, expecting things to be perfect. On the putting in particular you're taking what is a very good result and looking at it as a failure. You say you're very good at the 5 foot and in putts, yet you're disgusted at leaving a lag putt within that distance. Just look at PGA stats and you'd be surprised at the numbers they have. 

[ChetlovesMer]

On 4/5/2022 at 6:52 AM, Vinsk said:

The PGA TOUR average for making putts 11-15’ is 30%. Start using a shot tracker. I think you’ll be surprised where your losing strokes.🙂

This.

 

On 4/5/2022 at 2:16 AM, RandyBobbitt said:

But if I have a 40-foot putt and leave it 5 feet short, it's still a par putt but I'm so flustered by hitting the first putt so poorly

As others have said that's not a "poor putt". 

Yes, of course, you will always want them to be closer. But you started this thread saying you are "making everything within 5 feet". So, you did your job. You got the ball within your make everything distance.