TST Explores the ShotScope H4 (Stats Tracking Device) and Pro LX Rangefinder

[RFKFREAK]

55 minutes ago, iacas said:

Get a laser.

I can sell you my Leupold 3xI2 that doesn't take slope into account, @Shindig. 😁

Edited July 16, 2022 by RFKFREAK

[Shindig]

2 hours ago, billchao said:

I have a Garmin Approach G6. Wow, it's ten years old already.

I could sell you a Mevo if you're interested. Keep forgetting to list it on the Marketplace.

Part of that is just improving your swing in general. I rarely hit my 3w (I keep calling it a 3w, it's actually a 4w I dialed down the loft on) the last couple of years because the results were generally worse than if I just hit my 7i. So last year my scores were better if I laid up on par 5s. But this year, after improving my swing, it's become my go-to club from long range and I find myself going for the green more often.

It's in the Tee Shots page under the Strokes Gained tab.

I need to check if the Mevo will work in my practice room (I almost never hit balls at a driving range unless I'm warming up for a round or getting video for Evolvr).  My 4W, when I'm not topping it, is pretty good.  After the two tops yesterday, I had five more shots with it on other holes, four of which were positional (and one of which was approach).  All were hit well.  But I think I need to work on my woods more, and SG:A data broken down should help me figure that out soon to see if it's my imagination or if I hit them well.  I certainly hit them often...

It looks like SG:T2G is the sum of all non-putting and doesn't include recovery.  Or my recovery sum was neutral yesterday.

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Get a laser.

I have one.  I even use it.  I'm trying to get away from starting my "which club should I hit for the approach?" at the distance to the pin.   Of course, the flag is not my target, I am using this to get a starting point for distance. I then adjust the number for the wind and elevation.   For example, if I laser and see I have 115 yards as the crow flies, but there's a slight wind into me, I might add five, and if I think the green is a "add ten yard" elevation, I'll do just that.  I wish I had a good way to decide how much elevation will affect the shot, but that's a different question.

If the pin is forward, I'll add five, and if it's back, I'll subtract five, as part of prioritizing GIR.

So now I have a number.  I pick the club that is nearest to that, or if it's between two, I use some tie-breaking rules.  For example, if the pin is front, I take the longer club when I'm between two.

Regardless, I'm getting us off topic for this thread.   I think the answer is, I need to stop making excuses and make a Shot Zone map, and I need to stop expecting a shot tracker to do this for me.

This may be a stupid question, but are we sure positional shots are excluded from SG:A?  The "what is a positional shot?" page says:

Quote

By marking a shot as "Positional" it will be excluded from the "Approach' "Short Game" and "Club" stats in your performance data which means your stats stay accurate

Good, but my Performance > Approaches page lists that I had nine shots outside of 200 yards yesterday.   It also says I gained 1.84 shots vs a 10 hcp from those shots (total not each).  I just went through my round and to get to nine shots outside of 200 yards, I had to count my positional shots (which are marked as such in the round).  

Can someone look through a round where they know how many outside 200 they had, which included at least one positional and one not, and see if they're getting the same thing on the performance tab?

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Shindig said:

Can someone look through a round where they know how many outside 200 they had, which included at least one positional and one not, and see if they're getting the same thing on the performance tab?

Write to support, please.

[Shindig]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

Write to support, please.

Will do.

[Friz]

9 hours ago, Shindig said:

This may be a stupid question, but are we sure positional shots are excluded from SG:A?  The "what is a positional shot?" page says:

Good, but my Performance > Approaches page lists that I had nine shots outside of 200 yards yesterday.   It also says I gained 1.84 shots vs a 10 hcp from those shots (total not each).  I just went through my round and to get to nine shots outside of 200 yards, I had to count my positional shots (which are marked as such in the round).  

Can someone look through a round where they know how many outside 200 they had, which included at least one positional and one not, and see if they're getting the same thing on the performance tab?

Very small sample size, but in my 9 hole round as my first use with the H4, I didn't initially mark any positional shots and my stats had 11 approaches.  When I went through and put in positional, there were only 2, and both were shots over 200 away from the green, my Approaches changed to 9.

[Shindig]

1 hour ago, Friz said:

Very small sample size, but in my 9 hole round as my first use with the H4, I didn't initially mark any positional shots and my stats had 11 approaches.  When I went through and put in positional, there were only 2, and both were shots over 200 away from the green, my Approaches changed to 9.

Thank you.  Hopefully we hear back from them and I can find out what's going on.   

1 hour ago, Friz said:

Very small sample size, but in my 9 hole round as my first use with the H4, I didn't initially mark any positional shots and my stats had 11 approaches.  When I went through and put in positional, there were only 2, and both were shots over 200 away from the green, my Approaches changed to 9.

One follow up question.  Is this in the "overview" tab or the "strokes gained" tab?

[Friz]

3 minutes ago, Shindig said:

One follow up question.  Is this in the "overview" tab or the "strokes gained" tab?

Overview, I didn't see a total strokes taken on the strokes gained tab, but on overview my total approaches went from 11 to 9 after plugging in the two positional

[Shindig]

3 minutes ago, Friz said:

Overview, I didn't see a total strokes taken on the strokes gained tab, but on overview my total approaches went from 11 to 9 after plugging in the two positional

On Performance > Approach > Strokes Gained, on the "by distance" bar chart, you can mouseover to find out how many shots are in that category.   When I moused over "200 yards" (where most of my positional shots were), it showed I had 9 of those during the round.

My overview also shows only 17 approach shots, which means all the positional shots were excluded there, as I had no approach shot on one of the par-5s;  the positional second shot brought me within short game distance.

[Friz]

11 minutes ago, Shindig said:

On Performance > Approach > Strokes Gained, on the "by distance" bar chart, you can mouseover to find out how many shots are in that category.   When I moused over "200 yards" (where most of my positional shots were), it showed I had 9 of those during the round.

My overview also shows only 17 approach shots, which means all the positional shots were excluded there, as I had no approach shot on one of the par-5s;  the positional second shot brought me within short game distance.

Ah, ok, in there it's got 22 Strokes counted....so I assume that's my 9 actual approaches, 2 positional over 9 holes doubled for a "per 18 hole" calculation

[Shindig]

29 minutes ago, Friz said:

Ah, ok, in there it's got 22 Strokes counted....so I assume that's my 9 actual approaches, 2 positional over 9 holes doubled for a "per 18 hole" calculation

Thanks!  I have a working hypothesis then.  

ShotScope is giving us two different, and related but not the same, pieces of information from one set of data.

* "Approach" data meaning shots where you intend to hit the green.   This does not include positional shots, which is their way of asking "was it your intent to hit the green?"  

* "Strokes Gained: Approach" which more or less matches the Broadie definition (short game boundary is different).   I currently believe this does include positional shots.  

[StuM]

I am clearly interested, hopefully they get the discount code up & running.  That is not a deal breaker but that 15%   Is a dozen balls I could hit in water on some course.

Edited July 17, 2022 by StuM
Corrected typo

[iacas]

They will.

[Shindig]

Something I noticed last night when reviewing yesterday's round was that for a few holes, the tee shot was somehow tagged at the wrong tee.  In one case, it was two tee boxes forward from where I was playing.  

I cannot state for certain that I did tag my driver, so maybe the system is inferring that I hit a drive and doesn't know where the tee boxes are (other than the set of tee boxes).   

Thankfully this was very easy to edit.  

[iacas]

10 hours ago, StuM said:

I am clearly interested, hopefully they get the discount code up & running.  That is not a deal breaker but that 15%   Is a dozen balls I could hit in water on some course.

10 hours ago, iacas said:

They will.

They've done so (and fixed this). The code should work. It did for me earlier today.

[Shindig]

Tonight's minor annoyance is that the Android app does not remember what baseline I set each time for SG and compares me to a Tour Pro each time (unfavorably).  I like that the desktop site does remember, and it annoyed me that GG used to default to "all rounds, compared to scratch."  It also meant (I had 240 rounds in GG, and I can't imagine that's the record, even if we limit it to TST users) that it took some time to compute, but I digress.

I think it's also a weird baseline for them to choose.  Even if it's not going to remember what my baseline is, the highest handicap baseline that's better than my handicap would probably be a better default. 

Hmm... it appears if I close the app it forgets, but if I context switch and come back it remembers.  Okay.

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Shindig

[Shindig]

I heard back from ShotScope about the positional shot designation and strokes gained calculations.

Quote

So the Positional shots are not included in your general club stats but they will be taken into account for Strokes Gained, this is because having a positional shot (punching out the trees or laying up) does affect the overall scoring of a hole/round. 

This matches my observation and how I think of SG:A so I'm glad to see it. 

[StuM]

Ordered, if all goes as planned I should have this for the July 30th TST Meetup.

[ChetlovesMer]

Just now, StuM said:

Ordered, if all goes as planned I should have this for the July 30th TST Meetup.

Cool, man.
BTW _ I for one, am looking forward to the meet up.