Improve the PGA Tour TV Product

[Vinsk]

6 hours ago, Moxley said:

They are no longer playing their "best golf" anyway (as a group) because many of the good players have left, so I don't think this small worry has to stop things. Provide what the fans want, or the competition will do it. 

So by that logic the ‘many good players’ playing in LIV GOLF aren’t playing their best golf either. I mean seriously, have you seen the scrubs on that tour other than your selected ‘ many’?

[ChetlovesMer]

6 hours ago, Moxley said:

Provide what the fans want, or the competition will do it. 

This is an easy thing to say, but it doesn't always work in "real life". Firstly, you will never please all the fans. And for everything that one fan wants another fan may want the opposite. 

Think of it this way. You may love tacos. You may even want to eat tacos for every meal. But going into a Subway restaurant and telling them to provide tacos or you'll take your business elsewhere doesn't really force their hand. 

Another thing to remember is there are and will continue to be many people who "think" they speak for everyone, when they really don't. I can't even begin to tell you the number of school board meetings I've sat in where somebody says "All the parents want X!" And they are absolutely sure that everyone thinks the way they do. Then we survey the parents and very few of them really want that. It's a normal human characteristic to assume everyone thinks the way you do. But more often than not, they don't. 

[Darkfrog]

I recently listened to this episode of The Fried Egg podcast. I thought it was an interesting conversation about making changes to the structure of the PGA Tour season and playoffs with the goal to make the playoffs and Tour Championship more meaningful. I'm not sure how viable any of this is, but the concept would create more meaningful/consequential regular season PGA Tour events, which I think would be a good step toward improving the TV product (lots of good players with something on the line). There is also an article covering the same concept if you don't feel like listening to the pod.

To Fend Off LIV, the PGA Tour Needs to Change. Here’s How. - The Fried Egg

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On Monday, the PGA Tour released its 2022-23 schedule, and… well, it looks pretty much the same as this year’s schedule. That’s a problem, Joseph LaMagna (@JosephLaMagna) argues in a new article on The Fried Egg...

I also listened to today's Shotgun Start podcast, and Andy was bitching (rightfully) about how hard it was to figure out how to watch the Fortinet tournament even though PGA Tour has broadcast deals with networks with huge infrastructure for making content available, while LIV was super easy to watch on YouTube (but the Chicago event still sucked).

[iacas]

I think Andy is off his rocker with a lot of the LIV stuff, and Joseph LaMagna has made some really, really bad points.

They act like the Tour HAS to do these things or the whole system will die.

Get real.

[Moxley]

5 hours ago, Vinsk said:

So by that logic the ‘many good players’ playing in LIV GOLF aren’t playing their best golf either. I mean seriously, have you seen the scrubs on that tour other than your selected ‘ many’?

Well I think we're getting a bit off topic there, Kevin. 

The point I'm making is that providing the "best golf" is not a bar to the PGA Tour doing other things they think in their interests. I mean, the latest tournament was won courtesy of a three putt from three feet and the PGA Tour were happily promoting this to me on social media.

[Moxley]

8 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

This is an easy thing to say, but it doesn't always work in "real life". Firstly, you will never please all the fans. And for everything that one fan wants another fan may want the opposite. 

Think of it this way. You may love tacos. You may even want to eat tacos for every meal. But going into a Subway restaurant and telling them to provide tacos or you'll take your business elsewhere doesn't really force their hand. 

Another thing to remember is there are and will continue to be many people who "think" they speak for everyone, when they really don't. I can't even begin to tell you the number of school board meetings I've sat in where somebody says "All the parents want X!" And they are absolutely sure that everyone thinks the way they do. Then we survey the parents and very few of them really want that. It's a normal human characteristic to assume everyone thinks the way you do. But more often than not, they don't. 

This all makes sense, I'm referring to fans as a group, but there is indeed an assumption in there that a majority would enjoy this (caddie interaction). I guess it's something they would have to figure out.

[Vinsk]

3 hours ago, Moxley said:

I mean, the latest tournament was won courtesy of a three putt from three feet

Along with Homa chipping in off the green. That’s good stuff! That’s what made that ending entertaining. Just like when the biggest choker of all time blew a six shot lead in the ‘96 Masters.

[ChetlovesMer]

5 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

 Just like when the biggest choker of all time blew a six shot lead in the ‘96 Masters.

Hmm.... Not sure what you are talking about.... 😁

[Darkfrog]

10 hours ago, iacas said:

I think Andy is off his rocker with a lot of the LIV stuff, and Joseph LaMagna has made some really, really bad points.

They act like the Tour HAS to do these things or the whole system will die.

Get real.

Andy has been ranting a bunch about LIV / PGAT / Jay Monahan on TFE and SGS podcasts. I don't agree with all of Andy's LIV vs. PGAT rants, but I think he's got a few good points, especially that the PGAT knew LIV (or similar) was in the works, acted like everything was fine, and then did nothing until their competitor was up and running, and only made meaningful change after Tiger, Rory, and 20 other top players got together to work on it. I had never heard of Joseph LaMagna before the podcast, and still don't really know who he is or what he does, except his pitch for schedule optimization or something.

I do think that there is merit in the idea of having more of the best players playing in the same regular PGAT tournaments, and tweaking things so the Fedex Cup Playoffs are actually meaningful. This would definitely improve the TV product for me, because I want to see a lot of the best players, competing against each other, on the best courses. Although I would still complain about too many commercials, and probably not watch it live anyways.

I also like the idea of less cards and a relegation/promotion system. I love watching Premier League games that have relegation implications at the end of the season. I think it might add some spice to PGAT TV product if new up and coming players were promoted from feeder tours at intervals throughout the season, and poor performing PGAT players were relegated.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Darkfrog said:

Andy has been ranting a bunch about LIV / PGAT / Jay Monahan on TFE and SGS podcasts. I don't agree with all of Andy's LIV vs. PGAT rants, but I think he's got a few good points, especially that the PGAT knew LIV (or similar) was in the works, acted like everything was fine, and then did nothing until their competitor was up and running, and only made meaningful change after Tiger, Rory, and 20 other top players got together to work on it.

You honestly think that the changes Tiger and Rory put together were implemented in like two weeks?

And the PGA Tour didn't have the new TV contract money until recently, either.

There's PR, and there's all the behind-the-scenes stuff they've done. I do think they were surprised at how many players took the Saudi sportswashing money, but like Jay has said: they're irrational actors.

1 minute ago, Darkfrog said:

I do think that there is merit in the idea of having more of the best players playing in the same regular PGAT tournaments

Which they're doing.

He leans way too heavily on "the final tournament must be an eight-player match play or the whole season is pointless" thing, though.

The PGA Tour survived BEFORE they even had a real "season-long system." It used to just end at the Tour Championship which was, you know, just another event.

1 minute ago, Darkfrog said:

Although I would still complain about too many commercials, and probably not watch it live anyways.

Exactly. And that's where Andy is almost completely missing the boat.

1 minute ago, Darkfrog said:

I also like the idea of less cards and a relegation/promotion system. I love watching Premier League games that have relegation implications at the end of the season.

The PGA Tour has that now. Andy wants shit to happen every three weeks or something ridiculous. Guys couldn't make schedules if he had it his way. I think he's literally said "play great in a few KFT events, you get promoted for awhile on the PGA Tour!" No. That'd be chaos.

[Darkfrog]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

You honestly think that the changes Tiger and Rory put together were implemented in like two weeks?

No, I think that PGAT, sponsors, and agents were probably working on that as soon as they determined LIV was a real threat, before the player meeting. And possibly the PGAT even had a plan in the works to respond to the PGL or LIV way before the fracture started. But the perception is that the PGAT behaved like everything was fine and did nothing to get out ahead of the situation.

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Which they're doing.

It feels like this is a reaction though, and not that there was a long running idea to make their product better. Of course, the reason for the change doesn't matter - the elevated events will still be a better product, in theory.

12 minutes ago, iacas said:

He leans way too heavily on "the final tournament must be an eight-player match play or the whole season is pointless" thing, though.

I don't care for the 8 player match play idea, I'm not sure if PGAT match play is cool on TV (WGC matchplay is boring to me), except maybe the Ryder/President cups. But I also don't know if I like the current format with stroke adjustment based on Fedex points, so maybe retooling the championship could make it better.

44 minutes ago, iacas said:

The PGA Tour has that now. Andy wants shit to happen every three weeks or something ridiculous. Guys couldn't make schedules if he had it his way. I think he's literally said "play great in a few KFT events, you get promoted for awhile on the PGA Tour!" No. That'd be chaos.

Every 3 weeks is extreme, but maybe there is a middle ground between how it works now vs. Andy's take that adds more interest and consequence to regular events (I might tune in to watch Rickie Fowler grinding to keep his card). My personal belief is that the PGAT TV product, and the PGAT overall needs to consider more bold, creative thinking in the face of an irrational actor like LIV, and it doesn't seem like they are embracing this at all, or at least their communications/PR don't make me feel like they are.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

But the perception is that the PGAT behaved like everything was fine and did nothing to get out ahead of the situation.

You didn't talk about the perception, you talked about what was actually being done, actually going on.

6 hours ago, Darkfrog said:

I don't care for the 8 player match play idea, I'm not sure if PGAT match play is cool on TV (WGC matchplay is boring to me), except maybe the Ryder/President cups. But I also don't know if I like the current format with stroke adjustment based on Fedex points, so maybe retooling the championship could make it better.

Thing is… golf isn't just for the sickos. We'll watch almost anything. And golf media and people like Andy often forget that golf isn't about people like Andy.

[Bucki1968]

The one thing I like about LIV (and the only thing) has been the team format (especially on the last day). Not sure how the tour could do it but I think LIV should have a blind draw on Sunday for the teams that are out of the running and have them play two man matches against two players from another team. Give the guys at the bottom of the leaderboard a chance to make some money getting some skins or beating two guys from another team. Maybe the tour could pay out something for the guy who makes up the most strokes on Saturday/Sunday?  Pick four name guys and have them play a two man best ball against each other? Just spit balling.

[dzjc]

Speaking of Shane Bacon, how come he's not on Golf Channel any longer?

Dale

[iacas]

Pretty sure he's still at Golf Channel. Might just be taking a leave for a baby or something, I think I heard.

https://www.golfchannel.com/author/shane-bacon

Lists him as the co-host of "Golf Today."

Then again Max Homa left "Get a Grip" last fall.

[Big Lex]

Some really great ideas in this thread. I love the things people suggested about graphics, like listing probabilities or SG type numbers...in general I would like there to be less talking, less describing, and more enriching information. 

I like the things they are doing with camera work, that cinematic camera for example, and would like to see more of that. I would like to see more close up club-ball interaction or even closeups of the players faces or something during the hits. These could be on replays, like they already do to some extent, just more of it or different scenarios. I don't know if it's possible to show the shot tracer but show it from the perspective of the landing area; that might be interesting to see in some situations. 

I went to the Texas Open in 1993 or 1994, when it was at Oak Hills (?) in San Antonio, before they moved it to the bigger course. The ropes were extremely close to the teeing areas, and there was something really cool about being that close to them, where you could see and practically feel how dynamic and powerful the movement was and so forth. It would be cool if with these new cameras there was a way to capture that. In fact, we watched Fred Couples on one tee and I remember thinking that his swing was alot more violent and powerful in person than it seemed on TV.