2023 Ryder Cup

[jmanbooyaa]

18 minutes ago, klineka said:

Also I highly doubt he "blew over" Bradley and Young, it was likely a tough decision that came down to some intangibles.

I agree 100%. Tough call came down to team room for final 2 picks. The players wanted who is on the team. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

You honestly think that ZJ factored in where every player was from and used that as a consideration factor to not choose someone? Absurd.

Also I highly doubt he "blew over" Bradley and Young, it was likely a tough decision that came down to some intangibles.

Both teams employ a team of consultants to pour over stats, analyze course fit, pairings, scenarios, who should play what ball based on spin rates, who should tee off on what holes based on proximity from certain yardages and certain lies, etc. It's HIGHLY unlikely that ZJ simply "blew over" Bradley and Young when making his picks.

Additionally, someone said it this way: You don't pick the 12th player for the same reasons you pick the 7th player. Different players bring different things to the team.

Also, I sent a tweet awhile ago that went something like this:

• The last 30 years: Europeans have such great chemistry. The U.S. has better players (Tiger, Phil, etc.) but can't win because of the camaraderie.
• Valhalla: Paul Azinger was great. He let the players choose who would fill out their pod.
• Whistling Straits: Look at the camaraderie on the U.S. team in dominating 19-9!
• This year when Thomas is picked, Burns is picked for Scottie, Rickie is picked (despite having a clearly very good year), etc.: "It's just an old boys club. They're just picking their friends."

Which is it? Does camaraderie matter, or not?

Plus, Zach has the same team of statisticians. Maybe Young wasn't a good fit. Maybe Keegan wasn't a good fit, not only in the chemistry way, but for the course or potential partners.

[snapfade]

Bottom line is it is easy to pick a position for or against as a fan. We are not the Captains, no one called me and asked my opinion. I'll complain about the choices, but it wont change anything. It's fun to bicker back and forth about it, and watch people get hot under the collar over something they have no control of. I do think chemistry has a part in it of course, just look at Phil and Keegan in 2012. Hey, be thankful we don't have to look at Patrick Reed or Ian Poulter. If I was LD I would have picked Sergio, 28.5 points in his Ryder Cup career, its where he shines. Meronk over Straka. Come Oct 2nd we will see what worked and what didn't.

[klineka]

20 minutes ago, snapfade said:

If I was LD I would have picked Sergio, 28.5 points in his Ryder Cup career, its where he shines. 

I don't think Sergio was eligible.

[snapfade]

22 minutes ago, klineka said:

I don't think Sergio was eligible.

Now that you mention it, IIRC anyone who left the DPWT became ineligible for Team Europe. I don't know if anything changed with the merger talks began, or if the Captain had final say. 

[jmanbooyaa]

No Liv players allowed for Euros

[Flipped]

Getting prepared for a RC presenting two teams with diluted talent and diluted personality. 

[klineka]

20 minutes ago, Flipped said:

Getting prepared for a RC presenting two teams with diluted talent and diluted personality. 

Can you please explain using facts how this Ryder Cup is presenting two teams with diluted talent?

The top 13 players in the OWGR and the top 10 players (and 15 of the top 20) in Data Golf's ranking (which includes LIV tournaments) are all part of this Ryder Cup. 

 

It's one thing for you to have an opinion about the personalities of the players involved, but your opinion of the talent level doesn't match up with the facts.

[Flipped]

The OGWR’s argument is diluted after it was rigged to eliminate the black sheep defectors.
 

But, you have every right to speculate and opine that DJ, Poulter, Reed, Gooch, Garcia, DeChambeau, would all be being lesser match players than others, and less entertaining. 

[klineka]

4 minutes ago, Flipped said:

The OGWR’s argument is diluted after it was rigged to eliminate the black sheep defectors.

That's why I included facts from DataGolf which does account for LIV tournaments.

5 minutes ago, Flipped said:

But, you have every right to speculate and opine that DJ, Poulter, Reed, Gooch, Garcia, DeChambeau, would all be being lesser match players than others, and less entertaining. 

You're really going to try and make the argument that right now, at their current age and form, that Poulter and Sergio are more talented than others who are on Team Europe and by them not being on the team the overall talent level of Team Europe is diluted?

Go ahead, use facts to support that claim. I'll wait. 

[Flipped]

The OGWR’s argument is diluted after it was rigged to eliminate the black sheep defectors.
 

But, you have every right to speculate and opine that DJ, Poulter, Reed, Gooch, Garcia, DeChambeau, would all be being lesser match players than others, and less entertaining. 

[Flipped]

I do believe ( as Rahm and McIlroy might) that Europe’s side suffers from not having Garcia and/or Poulter and/Stinson,  whether or not they deserved to be blacklisted for defecting. 
 

Eye test matters as much as stats.  Data Golf is a betting aid,

“…Cool data analytics site developed by two brothers from Carleton Place….Data Golf represents the intersection of applied statistics, data visualization, web development, and, of course, golf. The goal is to provide unique perspectives on the game…”

I waiting for the Twilight Zone music to cue up. 
 

Peace. 

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Flipped said:

I do believe ( as Rahm and McIlroy might) that Europe’s side suffers from not having Garcia and/or Poulter and/Stinson,  whether or not they deserved to be blacklisted for defecting.

Of course they deserved it. They knew the rules, and broke them anyway, and suffered the specified consequences. So of course they deserved it.

Also…

On June 5, 2022… Sergio Garcia was ranked 57th in the OWGR. Poulter was ranked 92nd. Your argument doesn't have any merit.

12 minutes ago, Flipped said:

Eye test matters as much as stats.

No. And your eyes are broken if you think Poulter/Garcia would help the European teams at this point.

13 minutes ago, Flipped said:

Data Golf is a betting aid,

Also no.

Poulter is well past his prime. Garcia too.

Sorry.

[Flipped]

No need to apologize for having an opinion

[klineka]

16 minutes ago, Flipped said:

I do believe ( as Rahm and McIlroy might) that Europe’s side suffers from not having Garcia and/or Poulter and/Stinson,  whether or not they deserved to be blacklisted for defecting. 
 

Eye test matters as much as stats. 

Number of top 10s in 12 LIV events this season

Poulter - 0

Stenson - 3

Garcia - 3

Total number of wins - 0

You need to get your eyes checked if your eye test is telling you those 3 players bring more talent to Team Europe right now over guys like Ludvig, Fleetwood, Straka, etc.

Straka is the "weakest" of the 3 I listed and he has more top 10s and wins this season in less overall events and against tougher competition than Poulter, Stenson, and Garcia combined.

What have you seen from those 3 with your eyes that indicate that the talent level of Team Europe would be higher with them on the team?

3 minutes ago, Flipped said:

No need to apologize for having an opinion

No, but you should for coming on here and making claims with no intentions of supporting them with facts.

If you're going to make an outlandish claim, be prepared to back it up. You haven't provided a single fact or example that supports your claim that Team Europe would be a more talented team if they had Poulter, Stenson, and Garcia in their current form over guys like Ludvig, Fleetwood, and Straka.

[Beastie]

Sergio is not eligible for selection, he resigned his membership of the DP Tour. So he couldn’t be picked. The same goes for Poulter and Westwood.

Richard Bland was still eligible but …..well he’s Richard Bland

Edited September 28, 2023 by Beastie

[iacas]

8 hours ago, Flipped said:

No need to apologize for having an opinion

Not an opinion.

[jmanbooyaa]

Westwood, Garcia, Poulter and Stenson did the Euros a favor.  Time for the next generation of Ryder Cup players. They no longer had to feel like they HAD to pick one of these Ryder Cup legends after their diminished skills. This Ryder Cup will be great just like the others.