Do Rules Officials Generally Carry Rangefinders?

[Big C]

I'm specifically thinking of those cases where the nearest point of relief needs to be determined. 

Chris Kirk received what appeared to be an incredibly favorable drop on the 18th hole at the Honda Classic today. His ball was short-sided above a bunker with little green to work with. However, because he was resting near the grandstands, he was entitled to relief.

It appeared there was no viable relief to the left (due to the angle of the grandstands, moving left would have brought him closer to the hole) and moving right gave him a better angle to the hole. 

In the end, the rules official ended up greenlighting a drop very far right, across a cart path, which make Kirk's shot significantly easier. From the angle on TV, it appeared there was ample space to the left of the path that would have still left Kirk with an unobstructed swing and been much nearer to where his ball originally came to rest. 

It seemed that if the rules official had lasered the distances, Kirk would have ended up with a different drop and much more difficult shot. At this level of competition, I was surprised to see that he was just sort of eyeballing it out there. 

I know there are some on this board who have served as rules officials for competitions. Are you allowed to use rangefinders in determining NPR or is that not allowed?

[iacas]

Sometimes, or often, yes.

If you have video of it I'd be interested to see it. Or the Shot Tracker thing on the PGA Tour site? I will say that the way TV can make distances look funny it may have been the same distance but appeared to be quite different.

[Big C]

https://tourcast.pgatour.com/tourcast.html?id=R2023010#/hole-view?cid=734&pid=30926&hole=18&round=3&group=27&gv=no

Here is link to the Tourcast from the PGA site. The shot was going to be substantially easier regardless of the exact drop location, but going as far right as he did took the bunker out of the equation completely and made it a fairly simple up and down.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Big C

[iacas]

28 minutes ago, Big C said:

https://tourcast.pgatour.com/tourcast.html?id=R2023010#/hole-view?cid=734&pid=30926&hole=18&round=3&group=27&gv=no

Here is link to the Tourcast from the PGA site. The shot was going to be substantially easier regardless of the exact drop location, but going as far right as he did took the bunker out of the equation completely and made it a fairly simple up and down.

I'm not sure where you think he could have gone instead.

Seems like the right place to me. The cart path made him actually, it appears, hit a slightly longer shot.

[DaveP043]

15 hours ago, Big C said:

I know there are some on this board who have served as rules officials for competitions. Are you allowed to use rangefinders in determining NPR or is that not allowed?

I know when I have ben a volunteer referee at pretty low-level events, the only goal is to "get it right", and if someone wanted to use a rangefinder to do that, nobody would have an issue.  We have dealt with very few TIOs, but occasionally Penalty Area or Abnormal Course Condition relief encounters a similar situation.  Personally, I've eyeballed this, just like a player would have to do if no official is present. 

But in this specific case, I'd bet that the reason they needed to go so far was to get enough room for a reasonable backswing.  Consider that this is likely to be some kind of high-lofted shot, with a moderately long backswing, the Reference Point would probably need to be 3 feet or more clear of the face of the grandstand.

[Rulesman]

On 2/25/2023 at 11:11 PM, Big C said:

 

I know there are some on this board who have served as rules officials for competitions. Are you allowed to use rangefinders in determining NPR or is that not allowed?

I've seen very few referees carrying rangefinders and have never heard of an event where they were prohibited to refs. Eyeballing is the norm but occasionally a ref may ask players for relative distance information. This was more common before 'ready golf' allowed/encouraged playing out of turn. For short distances of course, string or clubs would normally be used for disputed npr.

 

 

 

[dennyjones]

At the Ally Challenge (Tour Champions), I've see officials carry and use range finders.  

[Rulesman]

8 hours ago, dennyjones said:

At the Ally Challenge (Tour Champions), I've see officials carry and use range finders.  

No reason why they shouldn't but can't think of a reason why they would as the OB/Lost ball option wouldn't be in force.

[Big C]

Thanks all for the replies. As I was watching the event last weekend, it occurred to me that I hadn't seen an RO use a rangefinder during a televised event before, so I was curious if there was some rule against it. 

Erik, it is certainly possible that the drop area was correct. From the televised broadcast it appeared to be further right than needed, but it prompted the question in my mind and thanks to all who responded. 

[p1n9183]

With paint I added a couple of circles. I don't know if the ball was in the grandstand or against it´s wall. The bigger circle represent the ball in the grandstand a the other if the ball was against the wall. I added also the nearest points of relief in red that could be a potential relief point (if space allowed it)

Edited March 7, 2023 by p1n9183

[iacas]

19 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

With paint I added a couple of circles. I don't know if the ball was in the grandstand or against it´s wall. The bigger circle represent the ball in the grandstand a the other if the ball was against the wall. I added also the nearest points of relief in red that could be a potential relief point (if space allowed it)

And even your first red dot on the outer circle avoids having to go over the bunker.