2023 PGA Championship Thread

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

@iacas We’re talking about elite professional athletes.  Pro athletes generally have a “bring it on” mentality, not an “I fear this guy” mentality.

Then Tiger wasn't feared, either, and the word really has no meaning in the context of golf. So the conversation is pointless.

[Vinsk]

I can’t believe you guys are debating this. At least what Erik is saying. Yeah, ‘bring it on’ may be the attitude of some whipper snappers out there, but they certainly don’t get disappointed with easier opponents. I doubt on camera a player’s gonna say they hope they don’t  get into a final stretch with BK, but you can bet your ass they’re thinking it. As Erik said we’re not talking physical fear here. But anybody who wants to win isn’t excited to see BK in the mix.

[Darkfrog]

Whether we use the word fear or not, I think everyone is saying the same thing more or less.

If I had to describe the phenomenon without the term fear, I would say that when Brooks is in peak form in a major, especially with the lead, there is an inevitability about the outcome which perhaps puts pressure on the field play more aggressive, or take on more risk. Or something like that.

41 minutes ago, jxdama said:

The  PGA might  have a  bit  of a  problem if Koepka or another LIV player wins the  US Open.

I'm not really sure that would be a problem for the PGA (or PGA Tour).

Of course LIV propaganda tells us that Brooks Koepka, the greatest major championship golfer of this generation, winning the PGA Championship is complete and total validation of the LIV tour. Brooks was always capable of this, it was just the injury question mark. And Cam Smith and DJ are capable too (not so sure about DJ, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt).

I don't think a LIV player winning a major tips the scales of public interest in that tour. I don't think there is enough public interest in professional golf to care about a splinter tour like LIV. I also don't think it influences the decision making process of whether or not a PGA Tour player decides to leave for LIV. That seems more like financial decision, and for some players also whether or not there is an established path to play in majors, which still currently does not exist in LIV.

1 hour ago, jxdama said:

One  guy on the golf channel was saying he  didnt think Koepka should  be  on the Ryder cup.

Personally, I think Koepka has demonstrated with his play that he deserves to be on the Ryder Cup team, and if there are no rules saying he can't, is there anyone on the US team that wouldn't want him to play? Seems like outside a few guys like Reed or Dechambeau, they're all rich buddies, regardless of LIV or PGA Tour.

[billchao]

I can’t believe people are trying to use semantics to debate this. The list of players a tour pro doesn’t want to be paired with on Sunday chasing a major win starts with Koepka. Period. I don’t care what kind of “bring it on” attitude anyone has. They’re not going to sleep Saturday night thinking, “I’m glad it’s Brooks that’s leading, I like my chances.”

[boogielicious]

3 hours ago, jxdama said:

The  PGA might  have a  bit  of a  problem if Koepka or another LIV player wins the  US Open.  Dustin Johnson is due to play well, One  guy on the golf channel was saying he  didnt think Koepka should  be  on the Ryder cup. The  man who finished 1st and 2nd  in the  2 majors so far  not  on the team?

Did LIV have a problem when Rahm won the Masters? Be real. No one is watching LIV. Its format stinks and it’s boring. The CW networks cut away to infomercials with four holes left in the last tournament. That’s LIV’s problem not the PGA Tour. 

[billchao]

4 hours ago, jxdama said:

The  PGA might  have a  bit  of a  problem if Koepka or another LIV player wins the  US Open.  Dustin Johnson is due to play well, One  guy on the golf channel was saying he  didnt think Koepka should  be  on the Ryder cup. The  man who finished 1st and 2nd  in the  2 majors so far  not  on the team?

You are aware that the PGA is not the PGA Tour, and the PGA runs both the PGA Championship that Brooks just won and the Ryder Cup, right?

Also the USGA runs the US Open. The PGA Tour doesn’t run any major championships.

[Denny Bang Bang]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

I can’t believe people are trying to use semantics to debate this. The list of players a tour pro doesn’t want to be paired with on Sunday chasing a major win starts with Koepka. Period. I don’t care what kind of “bring it on” attitude anyone has. They’re not going to sleep Saturday night thinking, “I’m glad it’s Brooks that’s leading, I like my chances.”

Semantics?  Maybe look up the definition of fear.  Fear is defined.

 I disagree people fear him.  In general pro athletes don’t fear their opponents, they generally thrive on higher levels of competition.  I’ve had conversations surrounding this type of topic with several ex-pro athletes that I played with, played against, coached, coached with, or acquainted with through the latter.

Consider this… maybe you don’t know much about the mindset of pro athletes?  Granted, I don’t know anyone personally who ever played on the PGA Tour.  So maybe PGA Tour players are wired differently than let’s say NFL players.

Feel free to look at it whichever way you want to.  I’ll continue to believe BK is not feared, regardless if anyone agrees or not.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

Semantics?  Maybe look up the definition of fear.  Fear is defined.

Yes, semantics.

"Fear" has a context. The context is on a golf course, in a tournament you want to win. Brooks is not literally a "predator" and nobody is "stalking" anyone either, but those types of words are used within the context to describe things. To that, nobody literally "chokes" away things on a golf course (well, not often), but that word is also used.

6 minutes ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

 I disagree people fear him.

Then, as I said above, the word has no real meaning in golf, because of the two bullet points I posted earlier. You're making a semantic argument, yes.

6 minutes ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

In general pro athletes don’t fear their opponents, they generally thrive on higher levels of competition.

🤦‍♂️

6 minutes ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

Consider this… maybe you don’t know much about the mindset of pro athletes?  Granted, I don’t know anyone personally who ever played on the PGA Tour.  So maybe PGA Tour players are wired differently than let’s say NFL players.

Dude…

• https://fadeawayworld.net/10-most-feared-nba-players-of-all-time
• https://www.nfl.com/photos/scariest-players-in-nfl-history-09000d5d823a7e3c
• https://www.thesportster.com/baseball/top-20-most-intimidating-players-in-baseball-history/
• https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1505360-ranking-the-50-most-frightening-players-in-nhl-history

The list goes on…

6 minutes ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

Feel free to look at it whichever way you want to.  I’ll continue to believe BK is not feared, regardless if anyone agrees or not.

Of course! You're denying that fear exists!

[Denny Bang Bang]

41 minutes ago, iacas said:

Then, as I said above, the word has no real meaning in golf, because of the two bullet points I posted earlier. You're making a semantic argument, yes.

Of course! You're denying that fear exists!

I’m not denying fear exists in sports (boxing, enforcers in hockey, slant routes into a linebacker’s zone, late 80’s Detroit Pistons).  I was getting at there’s not really a fear of competition, which maybe I didn’t do a good job of communicating.

But thinking more about golf specifically… yea, you’re right.  It doesn’t exist in golf (barring wildlife… alligators, rattlesnakes, bear, moose…).

 

[Vinsk]

36 minutes ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

 I was getting at there’s not really a fear of competition, which maybe I didn’t do a good job of communicating.

There can be a fear of losing. And that fear is quite present when playing against BK.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

It doesn’t exist in golf.

Except that it does.

Hell, I just sent @billchao a video clip last night where a former long-time ESPN writer said he was “scared” about a golf thing. Coincidental timing, sure. Fear exists in golf.

You are taking only one of many definitions and denying that the other definitions exist.

[Denny Bang Bang]

@Vinsk @iacas BK is not feared.

[jxdama]

11 hours ago, billchao said:

You are aware that the PGA is not the PGA Tour, and the PGA runs both the PGA Championship that Brooks just won and the Ryder Cup, right?

Also the USGA runs the US Open. The PGA Tour doesn’t run any major championships.

Im well aware  of that. But  if  LIV players were to win 2 of the  1st  3 and finish 2nd  in the other then the question arises which league  has the  better  players.

[Darkfrog]

2 hours ago, jxdama said:

Im well aware  of that. But  if  LIV players were to win 2 of the  1st  3 and finish 2nd  in the other then the question arises which league  has the  better  players.

This is getting off topic for the 2023 PGA championship thread, but Brooks Koepka, the greatest major championship golfer of this generation, who is now healthy, finishing 2nd in one major and winning another does not suddenly make the LIV players better than the PGA Tour. We know there are a few elite players on LIV, and they are capable of winning a major (while they still have exemptions or OWGR ranking to qualify)but there’s way more talent and depth on PGA Tour. The bottom players on LIV might not even be able to compete on Korn Ferry. When Mito Pereira or Abe Ancer start bagging majors or a bunch of the top 20 PGA Tour players jump to LIV, I might take this more seriously. 

[pganapathy]

15 hours ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

@pganapathy I’ve been blunt.  I don’t believe he is feared.

@iacas We’re talking about elite professional athletes.  Pro athletes generally have a “bring it on” mentality, not an “I fear this guy” mentality.  It’s rare pro athletes (especially elite) fear each other.  Sure, the bottom barrel guys or rookies can get intimidated.

Rahm T50, Scheffler T2, Spieth T29, McIlroy T7, Finau T72, etc… none of that was because they feared BK in the PGA Championship.

I’m not rejecting how good BK is.  But I don’t believe he’s feared.

Let me put the question to you another way.  Was Tiger feared.  Because in that 2-3 year span where Rory and Brooks were winning majors for fun and probably in the top 10 of the ones they didn't win, they were just as dominant as Tiger.  Yes, he was dominant for a lot longer period and he did win a lot of regular tournaments too, but I have to believe people feared Rory and Brooks in that purple patch of theirs because they had all aspects of their game firing on all cylinders.

I don't deny that elite professional athletes are not lacking in self confidence and will have a "bring it on" mentality against most opponents.  But unless they are stupid or just too self-confident, they would have feared a few athletes unless they were the best.

[boogielicious]

4 minutes ago, Darkfrog said:

This is getting off topic for the 2023 PGA championship thread, but Brooks Koepka, the greatest major championship golfer of this generation, who is now healthy, finishing 2nd in one major and winning another does not suddenly make the LIV players better than the PGA Tour. We know there are a few elite players on LIV, and they are capable of winning a major (while they still have exemptions or OWGR ranking to qualify)but there’s way more talent and depth on PGA Tour. The bottom players on LIV might not even be able to compete on Korn Ferry. When Mito Pereira or Abe Ancer start bagging majors or a bunch of the top 20 PGA Tour players jump to LIV, I might take this more seriously. 

Yeah. No one ever said they weren’t good golfers. The issue is who they are getting their money from.

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

@Vinsk @iacas BK is not feared.

Cool, we’re doing that (just stating something as if it's a fact when it's clearly not) now? 🤪 Let me try: He is.

3 hours ago, jxdama said:

Im well aware  of that. But  if  LIV players were to win 2 of the  1st  3 and finish 2nd  in the other then the question arises which league  has the  better  players.

They might have a few. But so?

[iacas]

Jack just said about his 1986 Masters win that "nobody was scared of me anymore" in the "13 Green Jackets" conversation that aired before the Masters this year.

But what's he know? @Denny Bang Bang has talked to some former players. 🤣

FWIW @Denny Bang Bang, I'm mostly just having a friendly go at you. This shit's not serious. I disagree strongly with your takes here, but it's just a conversation about Brooks Koepka and golf and stuff. It doesn't really matter.