Driver Fitting - No Help

[boil3rmak3r]

Long story short…. I have been out of golf for 5 years.  I started playing again this year.  My driver swing speed used to be 99, but now is 88 and 90.  My current driver is a 910 titleist with a stiff shaft.  I figured I could get better results with a newer driver having a regular flex shaft.

PXG had a special for a fitting - $12.50.  So I did it.

After they had me try different club heads and many different shafts, they could not find one that outperformed my current driver.  Some were virtually identical, but no real gains.

They said my aoa (+2.6), launch angle (13), and spin rate (2450) were “good”.

My question…  Is it uncommon to be fitted and not have any combinations that outperform one’s current 10+ year old driver?  I was really surprised.

 

[klineka]

Well wouldn't that only mean that PXG doesn't have any driver that out performs your current driver? Or did you try a variety of brand, head, and shaft combinations?

AFAIK, PXG isn't really known for producing elite drivers. 

I'd bet a decent amount of money that there is some model of driver/shaft combination out there from one of the main OEMs that would beat your current driver. (Titleist, Ping, Taylormade, Callaway, Cobra)

"Beat" can be more than just carry distance too, it might be the same distance but better dispersion, or a tighter deviation between your shortest and longest hits, better smash factor, etc.

Now whether or not the gains would be enough to justify $600+ for the new driver is up to you and your budget to decide, but I don't think it's fair to state that the driver fitting provided no help when you presumably only tried one brand's offerings.

[boil3rmak3r]

Thanks for your input.  I wondered the same thing about other brands.  I did do research on drivers before I did my fitting and many online “pros” hit the PXG and rated it very high.  Maybe that was a facade (I couldn’t pass up the $13 fee). 
 

What I took away from the experience is that it’s not the club, it’s my swing.  
 

Very humbling.

[ChetlovesMer]

1 hour ago, boil3rmak3r said:

Some were virtually identical, but no real gains.

This is not uncommon at all. 
 

I have a buddy plays a 20 year old driver. He has so much curvature in his ball flight that any driver he hits does pretty much the same thing. 

2 minutes ago, boil3rmak3r said:

What I took away from the experience is that it’s not the club, it’s my swing.  
 

Very humbling.

As I was typing I think you stumbled upon the answer. 
Unless your driver is just really really old. The COR is going to be 0.83 and you are stuck with that. 

Yes, there are drivers that players can get more out of. But if you are hitting a big old curve, it will be very difficult to realize those improvements. 

It's 99% the archer and 1% the arrow. 

[klineka]

34 minutes ago, boil3rmak3r said:

What I took away from the experience is that it’s not the club, it’s my swing.  
 

Very humbling.

I mean, maybe. But you can't say that for certain if you only tried one brand.

[iacas]

I went to a fitting with a student recently. A $100 fitting.

No driver performed more than about 5 yards in distance and maybe 4 or 5 yards in lateral dispersion than his current, five-year-old driver.

PXG drivers weren't good, but the current generation is quite good. It's not that uncommon.

[boogielicious]

15 hours ago, boil3rmak3r said:

Long story short…. I have been out of golf for 5 years.  I started playing again this year.  My driver swing speed used to be 99, but now is 88 and 90.  My current driver is a 910 titleist with a stiff shaft.  I figured I could get better results with a newer driver having a regular flex shaft.

PXG had a special for a fitting - $12.50.  So I did it.

After they had me try different club heads and many different shafts, they could not find one that outperformed my current driver.  Some were virtually identical, but no real gains.

They said my aoa (+2.6), launch angle (13), and spin rate (2450) were “good”.

My question…  Is it uncommon to be fitted and not have any combinations that outperform one’s current 10+ year old driver?  I was really surprised.

 

One thing you could try that will make the comparison more equal is to pick up a newer Titleist head on eBay. I’ve played the 910 and also 913, 915, 917 and TSi2. There wasn’t a lot of difference between the 900 series, but I liked the look of the 917 the best. I didn’t like the 913. The TSi2 definitely had more distance and seemed easier to control. You can just use your current shaft to see.

I see the heads on eBay for around $215. 

[ChetlovesMer]

13 hours ago, klineka said:

I mean, maybe. But you can't say that for certain if you only tried one brand.

I respectfully disagree.

The OP maybe able to say that for certain. 

I remember (and I'm sure @iacas can vouch for this statement.) When I first started working with Yoda I was cutting across the ball so much with my driver that it was producing literally 30 or sometimes more (sometimes a lot more) yards of fade. With that glancing blow, it didn't much matter which driver I hit, I wasn't going to see much better results. 

I realize that's a single data point, but I'm sure we all know that golfer who says something like "New drivers are over rated. I hit my 20 year old driver just as well as any of the new stuff." What that golfer may or may not realize is that his/her strike is so poor he/she can't realize the benefits new technology offers. What that golfer really means is that they hit their 20 year old driver just as BADLY as they hit the new stuff. 

Again, I'm not saying this is happening to @boil3rmak3r, but we know golfers who it doesn't matter what driver you put in their hands, they aren't going to get good results. ... I know, because I used to be that golfer. 

Many times, money is better spent finding a good swing coach rather than a better driver. ... Or if you are like me, you do both. 🤪... Of course, as I've said many times, I like shiny things. 👍

[klineka]

3 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I respectfully disagree.

The OP maybe able to say that for certain. 

I remember (and I'm sure @iacas can vouch for this statement.) When I first started working with Yoda I was cutting across the ball so much with my driver that it was producing literally 30 or sometimes more (sometimes a lot more) yards of fade. With that glancing blow, it didn't much matter which driver I hit, I wasn't going to see much better results. 

I realize that's a single data point, but I'm sure we all know that golfer who says something like "New drivers are over rated. I hit my 20 year old driver just as well as any of the new stuff." What that golfer may or may not realize is that his/her strike is so poor he/she can't realize the benefits new technology offers. What that golfer really means is that they hit their 20 year old driver just as BADLY as they hit the new stuff. 

Again, I'm not saying this is happening to @boil3rmak3r, but we know golfers who it doesn't matter what driver you put in their hands, they aren't going to get good results. ... I know, because I used to be that golfer. 

Many times, money is better spent finding a good swing coach rather than a better driver. ... Or if you are like me, you do both. 🤪... Of course, as I've said many times, I like shiny things. 👍

All I'm really trying to say is that while it very well might be the case that OP won't get better results from any new driver from any brand, they can't say for certain that no new driver will beat their current driver since they only tested one brand/model.

 

[ChetlovesMer]

3 minutes ago, klineka said:

All I'm really trying to say is that while it very well might be the case that OP won't get better results from any new driver from any brand, they can't say for certain that no new driver will beat their current driver since they only tested one brand/model.

 

I understand what you are saying. 

What I'm saying is sometimes it doesn't matter what brand you test, it isn't going to get better until you fix the swing. AND I'm saying that sometimes you know for certain when you are in that boat. 

So, there are definitely times you know for certain that no new driver will beat your current driver. 

I can go pick out a half dozen guys from my Wednesday Night Golf League who I don't care what driver you give them, they ain't going to hit it any farther, or any straighter. I am %100 certain of that. You would be certain of it as well if you see them hit driver. Some of those guys know that to be true. So they can be absolutely be certain that no new driver will beat their current driver. 

[DeadMan]

20 hours ago, boil3rmak3r said:

My question…  Is it uncommon to be fitted and not have any combinations that outperform one’s current 10+ year old driver?  I was really surprised.

Yes, it's uncommon. Personally, I think it means that you had a good fitter. A lot of fittings are really just sales pitches, and you can get fitters trying to convince you that a bit bump in performance with limited sample size is enough to spend $600 on a new driver. It's good to have a fitter who will not do that.

[Elmer]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

PXG drivers weren't good, but the current generation is quite good. It's not that uncommon.

last summer i bought a 0211 with a stiff shaft. The price was around $229, and this was an opportunity for me to buy a driver, with a stiff shaft and not break the bank.
I would defer to iacas on gear and what constitutes "good".
But as a mid to highish handicapper, the PXG 0211works for me in the ways I need it to (forward, findable and a bit forgiving) and left room in my budget to upgrade another club in the bag. 

20 hours ago, boil3rmak3r said:

Long story short…. I have been out of golf for 5 years.  I started playing again this year.  My driver swing speed used to be 99, but now is 88 and 90.  My current driver is a 910 titleist with a stiff shaft.  I figured I could get better results with a newer driver having a regular flex shaft.

PXG had a special for a fitting - $12.50.  So I did it.

After they had me try different club heads and many different shafts, they could not find one that outperformed my current driver.  Some were virtually identical, but no real gains.

They said my aoa (+2.6), launch angle (13), and spin rate (2450) were “good”.

My question…  Is it uncommon to be fitted and not have any combinations that outperform one’s current 10+ year old driver?  I was really surprised.

 

A year back, maybe 2, I went and did a fitting as I was looking to buy some new irons. I was all geeked out that I would get some irons that are tailored to the needs of my swing.
I hit all the clubs, with all the shafts. I was then disappointed when the guy gave me the results "anything off the shelf with a stiff shaft".
I was "normal, normal, normal". I dont even know if that is a technical golf term of not!

This was a better experience when last summer I went to the local golf hut and tried drivers. Same thing launch monitor, ever shaft and head and then the guy pointed to the big name driver which has a name like " mach 12 super launch in silver" for $549, and said that is the only driver for you. 
I was a little suspicious when this was also the fullest rack of clubs, making it seemed like they were not moving this product.

I guess I would feel more comfortable with someone being truthful and not just making a sales pitch, and trying to move product.  

[klineka]

3 minutes ago, Elmer said:

This was a better experience when last summer I went to the local golf hut and tried drivers. Same thing launch monitor, ever shaft and head and then the guy pointed to the big name driver which has a name like " mach 12 super launch in silver" for $549, and said that is the only driver for you. 
I was a little suspicious when this was also the fullest rack of clubs, making it seemed like they were not moving this product.

I guess I would feel more comfortable with someone being truthful and not just making a sales pitch, and trying to move product.  

IMO a fitting should be collaborative and a back and forth discussion with you and the fitter, it shouldn't be hitting a bunch of balls then the fitter just telling you what club to buy. You should be seeing the results and know which club performed the best for you.

Was the club he pointed to for $549 the club that performed best for you? 

If not, I would have pushed back and asked why he suggested that one over whichever model did perform the best for you.

[Elmer]

13 minutes ago, klineka said:

IMO a fitting should be collaborative and a back and forth discussion with you and the fitter, it shouldn't be hitting a bunch of balls then the fitter just telling you what club to buy. You should be seeing the results and know which club performed the best for you.

Was the club he pointed to for $549 the club that performed best for you? 

If not, I would have pushed back and asked why he suggested that one over whichever model did perform the best for you.

Agreed!
in my area the local golf hut getts points for being independently owned (not corporate). However when you are a golf shop open year round, the staff are basically salespeople.
Sure a few of them are PGA certified professionals but if they are working at the golf hut, it means they cant find a gig as a course pro.
So on one hand I want to believe their assessment is correct. However when talking gear the solution is always they club they just happened to have on sale!

[ChetlovesMer]

31 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

Yes, it's uncommon. Personally, I think it means that you had a good fitter. A lot of fittings are really just sales pitches, and you can get fitters trying to convince you that a bit bump in performance with limited sample size is enough to spend $600 on a new driver. It's good to have a fitter who will not do that.

I agree. And personally I don't think its that uncommon.

Here's a fun experiment for you all:

1. Hit your driver 15 times on a good launch monitor. 
2. Put shots 1, 4, 7, 10, and 13 in a group. Call it "Driver A", put shots 2, 5, 8, 11, and 14 in a group. Call it "Driver B", put shots 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15 in another group. Call it "Driver C"
3. Look at the results. I 100% guarantee you that one of the drivers will totally outperform the other two. I don't know which one it will be, either Driver A, Driver B, or Driver C, but one of them will be a stand out in terms of either accuracy or distance. If you were buying a driver that day, you would totally trade in the driver which performs the worst for the driver which performed the best. BUT in reality (obviously) there is literally no difference between the drivers. 

 

Quite a long time ago (8ish years, maybe) I was getting fit for a driver. My swing stunk and everything performed pretty much exactly the same. Even the same as my current gamer. 
 

The fitter, to his credit, told me a new driver wouldn't outperform my current gamer. He said, he'd apply the fitting fee to a new driver if I wanted one, or I could just use it as store credit. Which I did and bought golf balls. 

[boil3rmak3r]

I really appreciate everyone’s feedback!  To put things in better context, I actually drive the ball decently.  Of course I have my fair share of mis-hits, but I generally keep the ball in play with an opportunity for a GIR or an nGIR.  I just assumed with my club head speed being slower, I might get better results with a different shat.

28 minutes ago, klineka said:

IMO a fitting should be collaborative and a back and forth discussion with you and the fitter, it shouldn't be hitting a bunch of balls then the fitter just telling you what club to buy. You should be seeing the results and know which club performed the best for you.

Was the club he pointed to for $549 the club that performed best for you? 

If not, I would have pushed back and asked why he suggested that one over whichever model did perform the best for you.

I agree with you and was impressed with my fitter. He showed me all the data in real time. Being an old golf nerd, I knew what the numbers meant.

38 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I guess I would feel more comfortable with someone being truthful and not just making a sales pitch, and trying to move product.  

I most certainly appreciated his honesty. 
 

14 hours ago, iacas said:

I went to a fitting with a student recently. A $100 fitting.

No driver performed more than about 5 yards in distance and maybe 4 or 5 yards in lateral dispersion than his current, five-year-old driver.

PXG drivers weren't good, but the current generation is quite good. It's not that uncommon.

Good to know.  I also saw online that the newer generations of PXG drivers were rated fairly well.

The takeaway for me from my fitting is that I need to get in better golf shape and try to get my swing speed up.  Until then, I am stuck with my crappy distances :(.

[klineka]

30 minutes ago, boil3rmak3r said:

The takeaway for me from my fitting is that I need to get in better golf shape and try to get my swing speed up.  Until then, I am stuck with my crappy distances :(.

The Stack system or SuperSpeed golf would be good places to start. I highly recommend The Stack

[boil3rmak3r]

5 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I respectfully disagree.

The OP maybe able to say that for certain. 

I remember (and I'm sure @iacas can vouch for this statement.) When I first started working with Yoda I was cutting across the ball so much with my driver that it was producing literally 30 or sometimes more (sometimes a lot more) yards of fade. With that glancing blow, it didn't much matter which driver I hit, I wasn't going to see much better results. 

I realize that's a single data point, but I'm sure we all know that golfer who says something like "New drivers are over rated. I hit my 20 year old driver just as well as any of the new stuff." What that golfer may or may not realize is that his/her strike is so poor he/she can't realize the benefits new technology offers. What that golfer really means is that they hit their 20 year old driver just as BADLY as they hit the new stuff. 

Again, I'm not saying this is happening to @boil3rmak3r, but we know golfers who it doesn't matter what driver you put in their hands, they aren't going to get good results. ... I know, because I used to be that golfer. 

Many times, money is better spent finding a good swing coach rather than a better driver. ... Or if you are like me, you do both. 🤪... Of course, as I've said many times, I like shiny things. 👍

I agree that money spent on lessons would help much more than a new club.

Not that it matters, but my swing path averaged -0.7 degrees.  My good shots are a little draw.  My most common miss is a straight push right.  So, I know my swing stinks, but it’s not like I’m hitting a banana ball all the time.