Is Stroke and Distance Overly Harsh?

[saevel25]

This article makes the claim that stroke and distance is overly harsh.

The Worst Rule In Golf | MyGolfSpy

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There should be a change here.

Their claims as to why it is overly harsh. 

1) Most golfers are not very good. 

Yes, but the rules of golf have been around way before pro golfer existed, and most were not very good. 

2) There are too much OB on many modern golf courses. 

Maybe were the author lives there are tons of courses with housing developments and tons of OB everywhere, but I don't see it. When I played on courses with a lot of housing, it isn't crazy tight that OB really comes into play that often. So, I think this claim is not valid.

3) PGA Tour players have the benefit of galleries and ball spotters to find lost balls. 

Yes, but I do not think it is consistent the further down you go the pro tour hierarchy. Also, this is just a claim to validate more bifurcation of the rules, and it's not really a good one. 

4) A lot of golf courses are not properly marked with hazards or maintained. 

This is true, but also the rules of golf cover this. A water hazard doesn't need to be marked for it to be a water hazard.  

5) It slows down play because you have to go back to the previous spot to re hit the shot. 

I get losing a golf ball in tall grass, or sometimes in normal rough sucks. If you hit one close to OB, or into the woods, hit a provisional. It speeds up play for a good portion of times you will have to take stroke and distance. 

Then the articles go into a few not really well backed reasons to further bifurcate the rules to make OB less penalizing for amateurs. Basically, they want the modified local rule of placing the ball in the fairway with two stroke penalty to be a one stroke penalty. This means that OB is now less penal than a lateral hazard. Imagine if the water hazard is at the base of a steep-ish slope. If you drop there, you will have a horrible lie/stance. I think right off the bat this stance is not valid. They go into where PGA Tour players get benefits over amateurs. Things like temporary immovable objects allow them to get free relief. Courses normally do not have the stands or other equipment needed to run a tournament. The argument is very weak. 

I might be willing to say that OB marked with a white stake and/or white line should be played like a lateral hazard. The scenario in my head is, what if there is a golf hole where there is a lake on the left, and OB on the right that goes down the entire hole. If you hit the ball into the lake, it is not playable. So, to me there is little difference between hitting it left in the water versus right OB. Though, you may be able to play it from the water. A lot of times a lateral hazard is not marked on the water's edge exactly. A lost ball is a lost ball. There is nothing staked, so it is hard to judge where it should be. So, stroke and distance make more sense. 

Yea, I think the rules make sense with stroke and distance penalty. I would say not overly harsh. 

 

[DeadMan]

I hate articles like these. If you are playing just to have fun, it doesn't matter what rules you are following. Nobody will care if you hit one OB, drop, and then mark down a 5 instead of a 6. If it doesn't impact anyone else or hurt the course, then go wild.

For competitive golf, I think stroke and distance or the MLR on OB/lost balls is fine. I don't see any reason to change it. The penalty being too harsh just doesn't register with me.

[GolfLug]

In general, don't see what is so harsh. If you don't like, it's not the law.. just make your own rules. I love vanity cappers

Two additional points:

1) Most golfers are not that good: Yes, and most of them think they are better than they are. So a softer penalty would suit their vanity. No, thanks. The 'right' kind would not mind S&D.

2) Houses pinching fairways: If not OB, people would go in and try to hit out of people's yards. Trespassing galore. No, thanks.   

Edited June 10 by GolfLug

[ChetlovesMer]

27 minutes ago, GolfLug said:

Most golfers are not that good: Yes, and most of them think they are better than they are. So a softer penalty would suit their vanity. No, thanks. The 'right' kind would not mind S&D.

This. Plus you know they'd all still compare themselves to the pros. "Ha, McIlroy shot a 75 today. He only beat me by one stroke!" 

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

3) PGA Tour players have the benefit of galleries and ball spotters to find lost balls. 

I've lost a ball in the rough a few times. But I think I've only ever lost a ball that I was sure was in the fairway once. EVER! 

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

Then the articles go into a few not really well backed reasons to further bifurcate the rules to make OB less penalizing for amateurs. Basically, they want the modified local rule of placing the ball in the fairway with two stroke penalty to be a one stroke penalty. 

I'm with you on this one. 

It's funny to me that they want the rules to be less penalizing for "amateurs", but they won't freaking move up a tee box. 

This whole thing is very weak. What's next? Should amateurs be allowed four free Mulligans every round? Maybe they should cap all putting at a 3 putt, or heck why stop there, all GIR's get an automatic two putt. Perhaps once every other hole amateurs should be allowed to throw the ball rather than half to hit it. I know, make the hole 36 inches in diameter for amateurs. 

Quit being weak. The rules are fine like they are. Put on your big boy pants and play golf. 

[Elmer]

15 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

This. Plus you know they'd all still compare themselves to the pros. "Ha, McIlroy shot a 75 today. He only beat me by one stroke!" 

I've lost a ball in the rough a few times. But I think I've only ever lost a ball that I was sure was in the fairway once. EVER! 

I'm with you on this one. 

It's funny to me that they want the rules to be less penalizing for "amateurs", but they won't freaking move up a tee box. 

This whole thing is very weak. What's next? Should amateurs be allowed four free Mulligans every round? Maybe they should cap all putting at a 3 putt, or heck why stop there, all GIR's get an automatic two putt. Perhaps once every other hole amateurs should be allowed to throw the ball rather than half to hit it. I know, make the hole 36 inches in diameter for amateurs. 

Quit being weak. The rules are fine like they are. Put on your big boy pants and play golf. 

I have lost a ball in a fair way many, many times. 
Playing into the sun, get blinded only to find out no one in your group was paying attention.
or worse, everyone in your group saw the ball go out to the fair way, but it just disappears!

Regarding Mulligans
I would advocate for 1 per round (maybe 1 per 9) for both pro and amateurs.
personally speaking, I rarely play different courses, but when I do it is somewhere I have never played before.  Cant tell you how many times I have hit a ball only to have it end up in a bad spot, "had a known I would not have hit that club". 

For the Pros I think it would add a layer of planning and strateegery! 

Regarding Stroke and Distance. I know some hackers who are going to hit their tee OB or lost in the woods all day. And that is just on tee 1. Then they are going to go try and find the ball only to march back and hit it back into the woods.
I dont want to spend my sat morning in a endless groundhog day cycle of looking for a lost ball and watching a hacker his next shot in to the same spot.
As the author said, the game is already slow....

[ChetlovesMer]

1 minute ago, Elmer said:

I have lost a ball in a fair way many, many times. 
Playing into the sun, get blinded only to find out no one in your group was paying attention.
or worse, everyone in your group saw the ball go out to the fair way, but it just disappears!

In the fairway? ???? hmmm......

 

2 minutes ago, Elmer said:

As the author said, the game is already slow....

Wait, I thought we talking about the rule being "unfair"? ... If we are talking about speeding up play they have a local rule for that which any league can implement. 

[Elmer]

56 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

In the fairway? ???? hmmm......

 

Wait, I thought we talking about the rule being "unfair"? ... If we are talking about speeding up play they have a local rule for that which any league can implement. 

I tell you no lies!
I have hit ball dead center into the fairway and never found it.  at least 3 holes on my home course have fairways that dip down slighly, once over the small hill the ball is out of sight.

However I have had this happen on other fairways. It could be a combination of the angle of the ball hitting the ground, soft ground and plugging.
But this has happened to me and people in my group way more that it should have!

This article  refers to it as "Lost In Plain Sight"

I believe the author was talking about the game being slow in relation to amateurs' especially when you add in the "unfair" distance penalty. 

Edited June 10 by Elmer
Lost In Plain Sight link!

[saevel25]

41 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

In the fairway? ???? hmmm......

 

Wait, I thought we talking about the rule being "unfair"? ... If we are talking about speeding up play they have a local rule for that which any league can implement. 

I had it happen once. We got a crap ton of rain in Dayton. I teed off from an elevated tee box (40-FT above fairway). The ball just disappears underground. During the year, once things got dried out so they could mow down to normal fairway grass height, you would see half to nearly fully embedded golf balls in the fairway. 

47 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Regarding Stroke and Distance. I know some hackers who are going to hit their tee OB or lost in the woods all day. And that is just on tee 1. Then they are going to go try and find the ball only to march back and hit it back into the woods.
I dont want to spend my sat morning in a endless groundhog day cycle of looking for a lost ball and watching a hacker his next shot in to the same spot.
As the author said, the game is already slow....

It is called a provisional ;). You can generally tell if you need to hit one. No one ever does. Then you don't have to make the walk of shame. 

The article is mute for the amateur argument, because a high % of handicap golfers don't even obey stroke and distance rules to begin with. I get it, if you hit one OB, or lose a ball on a weekend and you want to play by the rules of golf to post a score, it sucks. Either walk back or use the MLR. That doesn't validate making it a one stroke penalty. Especially when you are posting for handicap where amateur tournaments absolutely should be playing by stroke and distance rules. So, you have a scenario where people are getting a handicap of stroke and distance and others using a MLR with one stroke penalty. So, the penalty is not the same. 

So, if the rule was going to change to the MLR with one stroke penalty, then you need to eliminate stroke and distance all together for consistency in handicap and penalty assessment. 

In that regard, I further disagree that the rule change should be MLR at one stroke penalty, which would be a bifurcation of the rules. 

[ChetlovesMer]

2 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I tell you no lies!
I have hit ball dead center into the fairway and never found it.  at least 3 holes on my home course have fairways that dip down slighly, once over the small hill the ball is out of sight.

However I have had this happen on other fairways. It could be a combination of the angle of the ball hitting the ground, soft ground and plugging.
But this has happened to me and people in my group way more that it should have!

Maybe you should play these:

3 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I believe the author was talking about the game being slow in relation to amateurs' especially when you add in the "unfair" distance penalty. 

Once again, there is a local rule which can be implemented by any league to solve this slow play issue. 
You can find it here: 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

When you play with your pals I don't care what you all do. If you'd like you can write down an eagle on every hole and card a 36. But leagues should play by the rules. 

 

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

The article is mute for the amateur argument, because a high % of handicap golfers don't even obey stroke and distance rules to begin with. I get it, if you hit one OB, or lose a ball on a weekend and you want to play by the rules of golf to post a score, it sucks. Either walk back or use the MLR. That doesn't validate making it a one stroke penalty. Especially when you are posting for handicap where amateur tournaments absolutely should be playing by stroke and distance rules. So, you have a scenario where people are getting a handicap of stroke and distance and others using a MLR with one stroke penalty. So, the penalty is not the same. 

So, if the rule was going to change to the MLR with one stroke penalty, then you need to eliminate stroke and distance all together for consistency in handicap and penalty assessment. 

In that regard, I further disagree that the rule change should be MLR at one stroke penalty, which would be a bifurcation of the rules. 

You said this way better than I did.

But I %100 agree. 

[boogielicious]

12 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Maybe you should play these:

Once again, there is a local rule which can be implemented by any league to solve this slow play issue. 
You can find it here: 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

When you play with your pals I don't care what you all do. If you'd like you can write down an eagle on every hole and card a 36. But leagues should play by the rules. 

 

You said this way better than I did.

But I %100 agree. 

Do those balls come with an accompanying seeing eye dog? 😜

If you don’t keep a handicap, there’s no issue. If you do, don’t sweat it either. Just hit a provisional and move on with your life.

[Elmer]

14 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Maybe you should play these:

 

I can not play those for 2 reasons.
1-the multi coloured wobble of the ball would give me a seizure!!!
2- try finding a yellow ball in a rough filled with dandelions!!!!

[iacas]

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

2) There are too much OB on many modern golf courses. 

Maybe were the author lives there are tons of courses with housing developments and tons of OB everywhere, but I don't see it. When I played on courses with a lot of housing, it isn't crazy tight that OB really comes into play that often. So, I think this claim is not valid.

Additionally, if housing is just a stroke instead of stroke and distance… more houses (and children playing in their yards, older folks tending to their gardens, etc.) will be in danger as golfers don't fear the OB as much.

The stiffer penalty is a safety help, too.

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

5) It slows down play because you have to go back to the previous spot to re hit the shot. 

Play the MLR. And pay more attention to your golf ball.

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

This means that OB is now less penal than a lateral hazard.

YES! Good point he missed entirely. He said the same penalty, but it's actually LESSER to lose your ball or literally hit it off the course.

4 hours ago, saevel25 said:

Things like temporary immovable objects allow them to get free relief. Courses normally do not have the stands or other equipment needed to run a tournament. The argument is very weak.

At best.

4 hours ago, DeadMan said:

I hate articles like these. If you are playing just to have fun, it doesn't matter what rules you are following. Nobody will care if you hit one OB, drop, and then mark down a 5 instead of a 6. If it doesn't impact anyone else or hurt the course, then go wild.

Yep.