Rules question - ball deflected on green

[sacm3bill]

I played with a guy yesterday who was studying/practicing to be a teaching pro (plans on taking the PAT), and presented himself as an expert on the rules. We got on the subject of the two-stroke penalty incurred if a player's putt is deflected by another ball on the green. He claimed that if the player whose ball was hit had had plenty of time/opportunity to mark it but did not, then the penalty goes to that player, and not the player who putted... even if the player who putted never asked the other guy to mark his ball.

Anyone heard of such a thing? I can find no evidence of any such ruling or decision.

[Mr Eagle]

He's pulling your chain

[Fourputt]

I played with a guy yesterday who was studying/practicing to be a teaching pro (plans on taking the PAT), and presented himself as an expert on the rules. We got on the subject of the two-stroke penalty incurred if a player's putt is deflected by another ball on the green. He claimed that if the player whose ball was hit had had plenty of time/opportunity to mark it but did not, then the penalty goes to that player, and not the player who putted... even if the player who putted never asked the other guy to mark his ball.

He is wrong. The only reason that the player would be penalized for not marking his ball is if it was determined that he left it there intentionally to assist another player. In that case both are likely to be disqualified, Rule 22-1:

In stroke play, if the Committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball that might assist any competitor, they are disqualified.

The 2 stroke penalty only applies in stroke play. In match play there is no penalty, Rule 19 - Ball at Rest Moved:

19-5. By Another Ball a. At Rest If a player's ball in motion after a stroke is deflected or stopped by a ball in play and at rest, the player must play his ball as it lies. In match play, there is no penalty. In stroke play, there is no penalty, unless both balls lay on the putting green prior to the stroke, in which case the player incurs a penalty of two strokes.

[bigphil]

Yep, hes a dumb @ss....tell him to read rule 19-5 and rule 22.

[gsu_paintballer]

Is that case, golf could become a sort of.....curling! Isn't that what it's called? The thing where they slide the big rocks down the ice?

[tarheelsfan]

if the guy doesn't mark his ball then yes it is a 2 stroke penalty.If he had time to

[MunkeyGolfer]

Is that case, golf could become a sort of.....curling! Isn't that what it's called? The thing where they slide the big rocks down the ice?

Or billiards. But it would be funny to see someone sweeping the green with their putter

I sure hope I never take lessons from the guy trying to become a golf instructor.

[Fourputt]

if the guy doesn't mark his ball then yes it is a 2 stroke penalty.If he had time to

No. It's only a penalty if he has left his ball there deliberately to assist or interfere with the play of another competitor. Time is not a factor. If he is requested to mark and refuses, then he's just an idiot.

If both your ball and that of a fellow competitor lie on the green, and it's your turn to play, then you wait for him to mark, or you ask him to mark, before you putt. If he refuses, then I'd go and mark it myself. I'm not going to make a stroke when there is a real risk my incurring a penalty. I've never known anyone to refuse to mark their ball when asked, and it's only very rarely that I have to ask. For most players it's just automatic to mark their ball when they get to the green.

[sacm3bill]

I sure hope I never take lessons from the guy trying to become a golf instructor.

LOL. I know - I hate to talk bad about the guy because he was certainly nice enough, but he was a little fuzzy on some other things too. For instance, a lot of his tee shots were really wild, so he'd often tee up another. On one of those occasions, he got down in 3 on a par 4, but with his second tee shot. His girlfriend says "nice birdie" and he says "yep, thanks".

Even with using the second tee shots he still made a lot of bogies, yet claimed he was a 70's shooter. (I think you have to average around 77 for 2 rounds to pass the PAT). I didn't say anything when the birdie comment was made, but I thought, "Hmm, I bet *I* could shoot in the 70s too with that kind of creative scoring." He also had an overly optimistic idea of how much $ he'd make as a teaching pro. Oh well, some lessons you need to learn the hard way. - Bill

[TheNextBen]

LOL. I know - I hate to talk bad about the guy because he was certainly nice enough, but he was a little fuzzy on some other things too. For instance, a lot of his tee shots were really wild, so he'd often tee up another. On one of those occasions, he got down in 3 on a par 4, but with his second tee shot. His girlfriend says "nice birdie" and he says "yep, thanks".

Are you sure he just didn't repress his first tee shot so much that he forgot about it for a moment? I usually do that. I sometimes walk off a green and think to myself "yaaay birdie... oh wait... no it wasn't".

[Mr Eagle]

There seems to be a lot of creative scoring going on ,on this Forum . In my experiance people playing off 2 dont forget they had three off the tee , or maybe they do ?

[pjsnyc]

Is that case, golf could become a sort of.....curling! Isn't that what it's called? The thing where they slide the big rocks down the ice?

Isn't that how it used to be done in Match play? Basically the person furthest from the hole putts (as usual) and if he/she is short or whatever, they mark their ball but also leave it there so that the person who had the shorter putt and is about to putt can use your ball to bank it in or whatever (but still return the ball to its mark if used with a bank shot), etc...I know I remember that from somewhere.

[Fourputt]

Isn't that how it used to be done in Match play? Basically the person furthest from the hole putts (as usual) and if he/she is short or whatever, they mark their ball but also leave it there so that the person who had the shorter putt and is about to putt can use your ball to bank it in or whatever (but still return the ball to its mark if used with a bank shot), etc...I know I remember that from somewhere.

Never heard of marking it and leaving it. Until about 1952 though you did not mark your ball on the green unless it was within a certain (very close, like 6") distance from the hole. It's now remembered as the stymie rule. If another ball was in your way, you either chipped over it, or you had to play away from the hole slightly.

The only reason for a bank shot would be to deflect your ball back toward the hole if you hit it off line, so why play a bank shot if you already had a clear path to the hole? And it applied to all forms of golf, not just match play.

[IowaChop]

Who doesn't wait for someone to mark their ball? If they refuse mark it for them, then let them re-mark it. They will then receive the penalty. Passive-aggressive I know but they won't refuse in the future.

[pjsnyc]

Never heard of marking it and leaving it. Until about 1952 though you did not mark your ball on the green unless it was within a certain (very close, like 6") distance from the hole. It's now remembered as the stymie rule. If another ball was in your way, you either chipped over it, or you had to play away from the hole slightly.

STYMIE!!! THATS IT! Thanks for clearing that up. I couldnt sleep last night because of it

[Kiin Yang]

Surely its common courtesy to ask the person putting if you are in the way and whether you need to mark the ball???

Thats what I usually do ask the person putting if I'm in the way.

[Ed1]

LOL. I know - I hate to talk bad about the guy because he was certainly nice enough, but he was a little fuzzy on some other things too. For instance, a lot of his tee shots were really wild, so he'd often tee up another. On one of those occasions, he got down in 3 on a par 4, but with his second tee shot. His girlfriend says "nice birdie" and he says "yep, thanks".

Not only is he going to be a bad teaching pro...it's apparent he cant count either. bad, bad, bad.... combo.

I would hate to go pay a teaching pro, and him telling me that that my iron distances are ...oh "Maybe" its about 3** yards or well that's "kinna" good swing.

[martin00015]

And it applied to all forms of golf, not just match play.

Not correct, fourputt. Stymies only occurred in matchplay.