Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
IGNORED

Most hated course design tricks


Note: This thread is 6167 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted
I despise island greens simply because they're not strategic at all. It's do or die and someone who's just learning the game - like my girlfriend - usually just give up and put a ball on the green and putt to finish out. Silly.

every once in a while it is fun to play an island green. But there must only be one on that course... it must have a drop area... it should play short or mid length... it should have at least one tee box that approaches the green from the best possible angle

I mean #17 at Sawgrass... it's classic My wife and I occaisionally play a course in the area with an island green and despite being a new golfer (she started year before last) she loves that hole... http://www.legacybyarthurhills.com/main.htm But it would be terrible to play one on every course you play. I personally don't like greens with giant tiers... another words the tier should be manageable. Enough to make a two putt hard, but not so severe that the green is literally unplayable from the wrong tier. I also agree about the whole blind tee shot thing... If a course is going to have such, it should have a good yardage card and hole description with aiming point. Conversely the feature I find to be the most fun is the driveable or near driveable par 4. The green can be small and tricky, it could be guarded with bunkers, or it could be a dogleg... any way you slice it they are fun and tempting.
My Clubs: Callaway FT-i Tour LCG 9.5° w/ Matrix Ozik Xcon 6 stiff; Sonartec GS Tour 14° w/ Graphite Design Red Ice 70 stiff; Adams Idea Pro 2h(18°) & 3h(20°) w/ Aldila VS Proto 80 stiff; Adams Idea Pro Forged 4-PW w/ TT Black Gold stiff; Cleveland CG12 DSG RTG 52°-10° & 58°-10°; Odyssey...

  • Replies 120
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted
We have a course here that was built on an old landfill. It has plenty of elevation and is laid out in a links style. There are plenty of blind tee shots. The only one that I think is too much is a par 3 which features a blind tee shot only from the tips (plays @ 240). You can't see the green or even the flag from the tee. I say bring in some dirt and build up the tee so you can at least see part of the flag. Other than that one shot from that one tee box, the rest of the course is fine.

Callaway AI Smoke TD Max 10.5* | Cobra Big Tour 15.5* | Rad Tour 18.5* | Titleist U500 4i | T100 5-P | Vokey 50/8* F, 54/10* S,  58/10* S | Scotty Cameron Squareback 1


Posted

False fronts are my bane. I actually hit a good shot onto the green and I get up there and I'm 20 feet. Dang And a par 5 where you have to tee off with an iron to stay out of trouble is annoying too.

Driver: 10.5* SuperQuad TP 1st Edition All Black V2 Stiff
5 Wood - 585.h 19* DG S300
Irons: 3-PW S59 Stiff
Wedges: Rac TP 52*, 60* MP-T 56*
Putter(s): Anser 3 TP Black ballGET TO SINGLE DIGITS!Goal: Beat a certain admin that lives in my town


Posted
Nothing worse than being in the middle of the fairway and having a tree between you and the green. Has anyone ever played Keller Golf Course in St. Paul MN? It's a great course, but #4 is a 140 yard par 3 with a 50 foot tall, 50 foot wide tree right in the middle of the front of the green. Good players can hit a wedge over the tree, but anyone else is in trouble.

Oy, really! My first "home course" has a hole like this. Short par-4. The first time I hit an absolutely solid drive, it was on this hole. 230 yards, down the middle. Had to play out sideways for my second shot. One of many reasons I stopped playing that course.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Any blind shot...just pointless and unimaginative.

Blog: http://emergencynine.com/

In my bag you'll find lots of left-handed clubs like these:
Driver: G10 9* TFC (stock) S
3 wood: G5 Aldila NV SIrons 4 thru P: MX-20 TTDG RWedges: MP T Series Chrome, Forged - 52/56/60Putter: CallieBall: B330Bag (carry): Tour Stand; (cart): 9" Staff Tour


Posted
My course has the most outrageous finish, it can easily ruin a good score
16 - drive through trees dog leg right, the tree's are not cut back, push it a yard and you clip the trees, the 18th at Augusta is 10 x as wide as the gap on our 16th

18 has a tree about 220 down the middle of the fairway, 20 yards to the right is another tree, and a bunker and a rough in between, on the left of the big tree is 15 yards of fairway and big bushes.

It's an unfair finish where too much luck is involved, so my most hated course design tricks is where the course designer has to make it hard using unfair and ridiculous means.

In my Ping UCLAN Team Bag

Nike Sasqautch 9.5 - V2 Stiff
Cleveland HiBore 15 - V2 Stiff
Ben Hogan Apex FTX, 2 - PW - Dynamic Gold StiffNike SV Tour 52, 58 - Dynamic Golf StiffYes Golf Callie - 33 inchesBall - Srixon Z star X


Posted
really wavy and bumpy greens with numerous tiers *cough* jack *cough*

driver- R580XD 9.5*
3 wood- m/speed
hybrid- cft ti 4h
irons- fp 4-gap
wedges- 54* and RAC satin 56* 12 bounceputter- 1/2 Craz-Eballs- DT Carry, e5, anything found thats is good shapeshoes-adidashome course - nothing - uh oh. perhaps pleasant view againschool...


Posted
The one thing that I hate is when a tee box points away form the fairway. It seems like no matter what you do you always line up in that direction a little bit. Its not necesarily an unfair thing but it is something you have to watch out for.

Monster Tour 10.5* w/ Redboard 63
FP400f 14.5* w/ GD YSQ
Idea Pro 18* w/ VS Proto 80s
MP FLi-Hi 21 w/ S300
CG1 BP w/ PX 6.0 SM 54.11 SM 60.08 Sophia 33"


Posted
My course has the most outrageous finish, it can easily ruin a good score

man-for us, 16 is a long par four and your second shot needs to carry a lake and bunkers, but then it will roll off the back into more water-a bogey hole even for our pro

17 is a shortish par three dead over water-i'm usually hitting a 9-iron, but its intimidating 18-man oh man, par five. drive leaves you about 200 from a massive gulley, and then its 170 dead uphill with water on the right and a 15 yard false front-and its the 3 handicap hole!! my best score to date there is an 8. great finishing hole

driver- R580XD 9.5*
3 wood- m/speed
hybrid- cft ti 4h
irons- fp 4-gap
wedges- 54* and RAC satin 56* 12 bounceputter- 1/2 Craz-Eballs- DT Carry, e5, anything found thats is good shapeshoes-adidashome course - nothing - uh oh. perhaps pleasant view againschool...


Posted
I hate gimiky holes. You know the type of hole, where the only reason its tough is crazy aspect to the hole. A course in Fl, par 5 where the only way from the 15 marker to the green is over a grove of tall trees, a hole on LI, par 5 with too many angles to the landing areas, par 4 where the right side of the green is blocked out by a tree from the middle of the fairway.
Driver: 454 big bertha driver
Woods: warbird 5 wood and 7 wood (probably replace this year)
Hybrid 19 degree rescue mid wood (probably replace this year)
Irons: x-16 2 degrees flat 4-9 iron
Wedges: 60 degree volkey, eye2 sandwedge (old club but never found its equal), x-16 50 degree gap and 46...

Posted
man-for us, 16 is a long par four and your second shot needs to carry a lake and bunkers, but then it will roll off the back into more water-a bogey hole even for our pro

I feel for you mate, I really do

In my Ping UCLAN Team Bag

Nike Sasqautch 9.5 - V2 Stiff
Cleveland HiBore 15 - V2 Stiff
Ben Hogan Apex FTX, 2 - PW - Dynamic Gold StiffNike SV Tour 52, 58 - Dynamic Golf StiffYes Golf Callie - 33 inchesBall - Srixon Z star X


Posted
For those of us that need to know more about Redan greens but were afraid to ask... http://golf.about.com/od/golfcoursea.../redanhole.htm

I played one that was referenced in the article which is Seminole #18. I found myself in the cavernous bunker that is on the right/front. The green had to be 10 feet above my ball. I remember this shot because I used my 60 to hit out of the bunker and it ended up going just past the pin and I made the putt coming back. It was one tough par four.

Callaway AI Smoke TD Max 10.5* | Cobra Big Tour 15.5* | Rad Tour 18.5* | Titleist U500 4i | T100 5-P | Vokey 50/8* F, 54/10* S,  58/10* S | Scotty Cameron Squareback 1


Posted
. . . Conversely the feature I find to be the most fun is the driveable or near driveable par 4. The green can be small and tricky, it could be guarded with bunkers, or it could be a dogleg... any way you slice it they are fun and tempting.

For ME a driveable par-4 doesn't exist (although I did it once when I was younger) but I do like the idea of a par-4 that is driveable for a long hitter.

What I don't like is a long forced carry over water [although I don't consider that to be a "trick"] from the white (regular men's) tees. A long forced carry for someone who chooses to play the tips is fine with me, but many of us who play the white tees do it for a reason; the course is just too long for us from the tips.

Posted
In my opinion, any feature of a golf course that does not take into account the various styles or skills of play from beginner to low handicapper. Inaccessible greens from the front (including islands), excessive mounding, excessively tiered or undulating greens, etc. Golf is a game to be enjoyed. Designers should put the golfer ahead of their egos.

Very well stated...I agree with you 100%. Bogey should always be within reach, birdie should always be a stretch. Auto double bogeys for a shot only missed a touch is silly and not fun.

Taylormade Tour Burner, 2008 9.5, Fujikura Reax 60 stiff shaft, 2 degrees open
Callawy Heavenwood, 14 degree Hybrid, stock shaft
Titleist 585H, 17 and 21 degree Hybrids, Aldila Stiff 85 shafts
Titleist Tour 4-PW, Dynamic Gold s300
Titeist Vokey Spin Milled 56 and 60 degreeMaxfli Crossbax 5.0Top...


Posted
Blind shots esp. approach shots.
Tiers on greens too severe.
Rough too high.
Muddy fairways
False fronts

2009 Burner R
FT-I Fusion Squareway 3W 15* Fujikura Speeder Fit-On R
5W R7 R
FT Fusion Hybrids Draw 3/21*, 4/24*
G5 5-PW X-forged Vintage: 52.12, 56.14MDScotty Cameron: Newport 2 ProV1


Posted
And the list begins

1. Course that punish you for a good shot.
2. Course who have little man syndromes. Random rough spots and weird bunker locations. Gimmick holes.
3. Courses that skimp on cost and have tiny greens and try to make up for that with large aprons and other trinkets.
4. Course that interchangable tee's. For instance when the black tees have their own entity part of the time and share with the yellows the other half. That to me seems goofy and not well thought out.
5. Two separate holes that share the same green.
6. I hate dog bone shaped greens where you are forced to chip and take a divot on a nice green. I always blow those shots because in my head im dying inside.

Note: This thread is 6167 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.