All this Golf Techie talk

[jfrain2004]

Have just recently broken into the single digit club after almost 3 yrs of playing and I'm wondered what I'm missing when I hear 20+ handicappers talk of shaft feel, swing weight, spin control, high/low trajectory etc.
At what stage does all this really matter as the way I see it is firstly you must finish with the ball you started, be nearer the hole after every shot.
To do this Accuracy comes first followed by distance.
From my experience so far it seems like 5 digit handicappers play like 12 handicappers, ie nothing flashy, always playing the safer shot, not going round thinking they're Tiger woods, accuracy is paramount. They always know how to use any extra shot their handicap gives them to get in in par. Meanwhile 20+ handicappers play like they are pros. Driver at every hole, distance is everything. A 24 handicapper I play with on occasion ALWAYS plays par 5s with Driver, 3 wood followed by several irons to get out of the trees, long stuff etc and usually advises that I should be using a fairway wood to 'get up there' rather than the .
Another thing I can't understand is this "forgiveness" thing with fairway woods.
I never use one but it seems the selling point is if you don't hit the sweet spot the ball will still go a long way. Now, if I don't hit the sweet spot of a club I would much prefer it to go no where than into the trees /water/oob because that's where its going as a toe shot from a wood is prob going to slice and a heel shot will hook. I always use irons on the fairway cause if I go fat or thin the ball will only scuttle maybe 10 yrds on me and only cost me 1 shot as opposed to 2 if it goes oob or into unplayable rough. Was it not the great Jack Nick in a book of his that said "The Club which an amatuer hits the furthest on AVERAGE is a 7 iron" In my case it's prob an 8 iron.
Just my two pence worth

[blue3715]

They're 20+ because they are ysing too many excuses.. not enough of a spin ball, i don't have the feel of my shaft. I need to get low trajectory balls since it a windy day... I'm a 7 hdcp. I play one ball type (prov1x), I have only my 2nd set of clubs in 22 years, and only my 4th driver. Putting in a good swing and having good form is all you need to be a better golfer.

A smart golfer will always thing 2 shots ahead, taking his medicine. Accepting a bogey and not trying for magic to save 1 stroke, maybe.

[golf_junkie27]

There is a reason why 20+ handicappers are obsessed with equipment: they want to play better. I'll give you some examples:

A shaft built to their swing with the proper flex and weight is going to be more beneficial than grabbing anything off the shelf.

When you're a 20+ handicap, why would you play a premium ball? A ball that spins like crazy? You want a lower spinning ball, one that you can compress.

Same thing with irons.

Personally, I'd want to share or find out as much information about equipment before I step onto a range and then a golf course. I wished I had been aware of this site or any other site where I could have gotten valuable information before buying equipment and making mistakes.

[DJYoshi]

Exactly 1 year and 20 days ago, I stepped onto the course for my 5th time ever. My mentality is completely different. As stated earlier, I was more worried about getting a good 300 yard drive without worrying about where it's gonna put me for my 2nd shot. I've been fortunate enough to have met some great people that have given open-ended advice on what I should be thinking, how I should approach a shot, etc. Before I thought these things:
1. a longer drive meant everything
2. try to be a hero on shots I mentally and physically couldn't pull off
3. i didn't need a pre-shot routine..get up and hit the ball
4. swing as hard as I can on every shot
5. worry about my score which dictates how good I am & my potential

fast forward, I went out and got fit for the right clubs, right shafts, and I saw that handicap drop. more-so I have the confidence to know that even if I chunk a shot and get on in 3, I can use the putter to save par...and worse case scenario, bogey.
Even though my handicap has dropped to an 11.4, I still consider myself to be a bogey golfer. Yes it sucks when I only make 5 or 6 pars in a round, but if my ball striking's been on point, then I can't complain. I played the best to my current ability.
I've learned to admit when I was wrong reading a putt, selecting a club, attempting a shot, misaligning and the god-forsaken loosing a ball b/c of a stupid shot or trying to crank it.

A prime example of how my thought process has changed was yesterday's round at a place called Farmstead out in Sparta, NJ (farmsteadgolf.com).
it was a 497 dog leg left par 5. It's a relatively short par 5, but with water and bunkers in play, it can get the best of you.
Last year I played driver, 3 wood to try to knock the green or get it close.
Yesterday I went a good tempo driver that went 265 ish. I played a smooth 6 iron to hit to the middle of the leg that left me 100 away. sand wedge onto the green to putt for birdie.
That's a hell of a lot better than driver, wood. loose the ball in the water or get a sh** lie or hit the trap and then having to scramble.

I still have the problem of swinging for the fences at times. I've lost a lot of distance this year, but gained accuracy and a preferred shot type (fade).
My long irons still need work which is what's killing me. I still get nervous hitting a 3,4 & even 5 iron sometimes. I know my scoring capabilities & when I'm not firing from my preferred distance, I tend to suffer.

I know I still have a lot of work to put in before I can get into single digits. I know with a 95 - 105 avg swing speed, I can't compress a prov1x or even a prov1. I still play a premium ball, but only from trying out a bunch of balls to see what best fits me.

My question is, why do people need to have the best to think they'll be the best? Sure I've got a lot of $ in that bag that I lug around with me, but it's only b/c I've been fit for them, and they're what feel the best for me.

I prefer NOT to try and work the ball unless I'm confident that I can hit the shot that's required. But it does kill me when high handicaps talk about how they're gonna work the ball from right to left, left to right, cut the corner, etc...and then skull it into the trees, chunk it... shoot, I'm a culprit of that thinking and acting myself when I know that I shouldn't be.... but think about it this way:

does a 40-year old mother that commutes to work via a train 5 days a week NEED a SL 63 AMG or does she need something that suits her.
Does a 70 year old grandfather that doesn't know how to text, send picture messages and surf the internet on his cell phone need something like an iphone or blackberry?
my pops is 69, plays 5 - 6 days a week. he consistently shoots in the mid 80's everyday. here's what's in his bag

HiBoreXL 10.5 (I just got it for him for father's day)
Big Bertha 3 wood
Big Bertha 5 wood
Lynx 3 hybrid
Big Bertha 2007 irons regular flex (4 - pw)
Wilson Sand Wedge
White Hot blade putter

his balls: whatever's on sale! and he cracks them a long way, hits it straight & can chip well.

his equipment isn't AWESOME...it's good for him... it suits him....I told him to try out new gear if he wanted and he said no....he's happy with what he has... i told him to try a nike one, juice, nxt etc...he said..nah.. they're not on sale...

I wish I wasn't so obsessed with this game and the equipment, but I am. I tend to make rush purchases...but I do research before I make them.... it took me 3 months to decide on a new shaft for my driver after reading and trying other people's stuff and demo units... oh well...that's the end of my thought process..as you can see, i'm in a club and REALLY bored right now.

[MunkeyGolfer]

Well I guess I am not the avg +18 and higher handicapper. I am not trying to work the ball, I line up to my target and hit it. I do have nice clubs only because I got a heck of a deal on them. This sport is too expensive to buy the best in hopes to play better. That will only come with practice.

[Chambokl]

One thing you guys didn't mention (especially for high hdcp) is the line to aim. Players should find a line (aim) where there is the least trouble that could happen. If you fade aim right if the trouble is on the left... etc... I see too many players aim at the pin, flag is in the front I will use less club... No use a club to get you in the middle of the green, if you mishit a bit you will be in the front of the green, more room for error.

If flag is in the front your error should be deep and if flag is deep error should be short. It is surprising how many strokes you cut by thinking the game. If you play with a better player ask him what shot to hit to try to learn the strategy of golf.

If you miss a shot play for bogey, nothing wrong with that. Cut the doudle bogeys and hdcp goes down fast.

[sonicblue]

I've been playing very inconsistently lately, going through some swing changes. I'm headed to my dad's this w/e, and we'll probably play a couple times. My dad's getting up there in age, and has really struggled with his swing. He basically just swings way too hard, trying to make up for losing distance. Ironically, he's not losing as much as he thinks due to age - much more of it is because he's swinging too hard (trying to make up for it, get it??).

I thought of a "game" to play while we're there. First off, forget about score, this is a learning round. The objective of the game is each and every time, play a shot you KNOW you can hit. That doesn't necessarily mean 7-iron off every tee, or simply clubbing up on every shot. It means playing a shot you can strike well that will find safety every time.

For example:

* On a dogleg tee shot, instead of trying to shape it, hit something shorter to stay short of the corner.

* On an approach shot, instead of trying to carry it over a bunker, just hit it short and right

* If you're in the trees, even in it's pretty reasonable to go between that medium-sized gap, if there's any doubt, go completely sideways if you have to and go through the larger gap.

* If it's a long par 5, you don't have to hit 3-wood off the tee, necessarily, just say to yourself, "I'm only going to hit this driver 225, not 275, because I KNOW I can do 225."

I just dreamed this up (probably not totally original), but what I expect to find is:

1) we'll probably be amazed how easily we can still get up/on/near the green

2) once we're there, it will sink in how 'gettable' those shots are. To sit on a tee and be honest and say, "I can't hit this 300, so I'm just going for 250" takes humility. In looking at a 20-foot putt, you'll find yourself saying, 'I had to throttle back elsewhere, but - heck - I can make this.'

3) Though I said forget about score, we all know it's likely the score will turn out very good, but the goal is to come away with the confidence of being able to set realistic goals AND execute those goals.

[allin]

I do think that since many of the +18 golfers are younger length is what comes easiest for them. To some degree what you do best is part of any ones game management. I recently bugged my playing partner by purposely playing an approach shot to the right of a green and a little short on purpose. The hole was right behind a very deep bunker only about 5-6 paces on the green. This was a 410 yard par 4 and I had 172 yard uphill to the pin. A misshit 4 iron would be in the bunker and a difficult save. He had 155 hit a gorgeous 7 iron and began to pontificate that my strategy was wrong and I needed to go for birdies more, and that his was the right play. Hit his 12 foot putt 5 feet past the hole and lipped out his come backer and got a bogey. I chipped it to 4 feet and made par. The truth is we both did what we do best. He is longer and hits nice high irons that stop quick, and is a good sand player. I chip and putt well but an only average out of the sand.

[tm22721]

I think that tempo may be responsible for swing inconsistency causing many to plateau at a 20+ handicap.

Not easy to fix because tempo is affected by a variety of exogenous factors. Does it take mental training (yoga ala Tiger) to get it under control ?

[blue3715]

better for 20+ handicappers to not buy anything new and invest the $600 in a 5 day golf school (or is it more $?). You'll ge video analysis, a full day of proper swinging and hopefully an appreciation for a good work ethic.

I have a nice $80 golf mat and a net in my backyard. Worth the investment. Taking about 15-20 swings (using balls I found or don't play.. no range balls) keep my swing in enough form so i don't go out the the course and wonder if I'm going to play to an 8hdcp or a 15.

[Avid Golfer]

Have just recently broken into the single digit club after almost 3 yrs of playing and I'm wondered what I'm missing when I hear 20+ handicappers talk of shaft feel, swing weight, spin control, high/low trajectory etc.

I'm not a 20 handicapper, but here is my thoughts on each of the things you mentioned above.

shaft feel: over-rated. How a shaft feels has little to nothing to do with how well (or not well) you hit the ball. While finding the optimal shaft will give you more distance a generic shaft (or shaft you haven't been fitted for on a launch monitor) isn't going to ruin your game. As some people have said before its often the indian not the arrow. swing weight: over-rated. Like shaft feel swing weight isn't going to be much (if any) of a factor to how well you can play golf. Like shaft weight it is a personal preference, and does not significantly correlate to scoring ability. spin control: again how much your your ball spins can effect if you get your optimal distance, but if you can't hit the ball solid (hitting thin, fat, and shanks shots) then you're going to miss fairways and greens. If you miss fairways and greens then it doesn't matter how much or litte you spin the ball. trajectory: depending on the climate where you're golfing, receptiveness of the greens, and design around the greens you may be more likely to hit more greens in regulation with one trajectory over another. Again if you're striking the ball well then things like wind will have far less of an effect than you'd see from a badly struck shot.

From my experience so far it seems like 5 digit handicappers play like 12 handicappers, ie nothing flashy, always playing the safer shot, not going round thinking they're Tiger woods, accuracy is paramount. They always know how to use any extra shot their handicap gives them to get in in par. Meanwhile 20+ handicappers play like they are pros. Driver at every hole, distance is everything.

Your comfort level with your clubs is a big factor in what will work best for you. Once again I'm not a five handicapper (but I'm closer to that then the 20+

). I use driver off the tee boxes on par 4's and 5's more then most single digit handicap players I play with on a regular basis. I feel extremely confident shaping my trajectory high, low, draw, or fade as desired with my driver (the low loft makes the driver shots more likely to curve). The second reason I use the driver so often is because I know I have a higher chance of hitting a wedge closer to the hole then I do less lofted club from father away.

Another thing I can't understand is this "forgiveness" thing with fairway woods.

Moving weight and center of gravity in clubs provides better distance on mishits, but you're right if you're hitting shots off line it could get you in more trouble. Again go with what you're comfortable, and don't worry about what other people (especially worse) golfers say to you. As your game improves you may find that your mind set changes when it comes to strategy.

[golf_junkie27]

I think that tempo may be responsible for swing inconsistency causing many to plateau at a 20+ handicap.

I think tempo is related to confidence. I played with a TST member who is a single digit handicap. His approach was always the same, his tempo was always consistent and he always seemed relaxed. Whether it was a birdie or bogey, his demeanor did not change.

[blue3715]

took me about 8 years (age 19-27) to learn not to get fits or react to a poor shot. I'm 36 nowm and the last 5 years i've played my best golf.

[golf_junkie27]

I thought I'd put this here since it related to golf equipment. I was looking at some club information and found something really interesting about Anthony Kim. Everyone raves about his distance and how he chokes up an inch or so on his clubs. Many people wondered how he could get so much distance because of this. Well, it's pretty simple. His clubs are 1 club stronger than listed.

His 2I has the loft of a 1I, his 3I has the loft of his 2I and so on.

I imagine that many more golfers have similar setups, especially on their "scoring" irons. I know that if I could get the distance of my 6I with my 8I, without having to swing much harder, I would.

Just another reason why Pros are much better than the rest of us.

[jfrain2004]

A previous post alluded to how high handicappers always try to squeeze the ball out of the trees through that 5 ft gap in the branches as opposed to taking their punishment and popping it out sideways. They seem to forget the fact that it was the inability to hit a 250ft wide target, ie the fairway that got them into the trees in the first place ... lol
Chambokl mentioned how asking a better player what shot to play would help in course strategy but again, such good advice would fall on deaf ears when it comes to the Tiger hackers that frequent a lot of courses.
Or how often have you seen a 20+ guy take an iron off the tee on a par 5 thinking, "well, I'm not going to get there in 2, I have a shot on this hole, there's OOB on both sides so I'll just pop it off with a 5I and take 2 or 3 more shots to the green and 2 putt for a par or at worst a bogey", instead, the thinking goes like "my middle name is Tiger so I'm going to lamp this one 300 yrds, and take a 3 wood home from 230 yrds, 1 putt for eagle"
In reality what usually happens is, Driver thumps first 2 OOB, 5th shot goes 200 yrds, game over.