Bubba Watson

[NCGolfer]

I don’t know what it is, maybe it has to do with the fact that DD is only measured 2 out of 14 holes each round. The stats can say what they want but unless golf is completely different from every other activity on earth closer equals better odds. I challenge anyone to find any sport where your odds of success don’t increase as you get closer to your target.

Well, I know you find it hard to believe, but attached is a graph of driving distance (DD) versus proximity to the hole (using ALL of 2005 data). There is no proof that you hit it closer to the hole the longer you hit it. Here's how

little it matters... The RSquare value is .02 for the fit line. A perfect fit is 1. That's bad.

[iacas]

Well, I know you find it hard to believe, but attached is a graph of driving distance (DD) versus proximity to the hole (using ALL of 2005 data). There is no proof that you hit it closer to the hole the longer you hit it. Here's how

And if you don't like getting into RSquare values, just consider the fact that the line is nearly flat. Both indicate the same thing: almost no relationship at all. As in almost NONE, zero, zip, zilch.

I knew it would be bad. I didn't know it was THIS bad.

[muskegman]

Well, I know you find it hard to believe, but attached is a graph of driving distance (DD) versus proximity to the hole (using ALL of 2005 data). There is no proof that you hit it closer to the hole the longer you hit it. Here's how

Thanks for the background work Dave. That is very telling. "Common" or "street" sense would tell us that hitting the ball closer to the hole would lead to closer proximity to the hole but the facts say otherwise.

[NCGolfer]

"Common" or "street" sense would tell us that hitting the ball closer to the hole would lead to closer proximity to the hole but the facts say otherwise.

Agreed...and I thought the same thing NM Golf does until I started doing this research. It

is hard to believe. My thinking is that if you're good at hitting irons, then it doesn't matter if you're 15-20 yards behind...you are still going to stick it closer than the guy who doesn't hit irons as well.

[jeffgladchun]

Hmm interesting graph. Any idea what the Proximity vs. DA graph looks like?

[NCGolfer]

Hmm interesting graph. Any idea what the Proximity vs. DA graph looks like?

Still not great, but better. The RSquare value is .11. Tour players have a better chance to hit it closer if they are more accurate off the tee rather than longer off the tee.

[NM Golf]

Well golf is like no other game. I would still venture to guess that those numbers don't hold as true to amateurs, especially the higher handicappers. Why is it, do you think, that professional golf does not abide to the general rule closer is better? I have two ideas. One, as I have said before they must hit all their clubs so good that 60 yards difference must not be a big deal. 100 yds to 160 yds I mean it is the difference between SW and 8 iron for me . HMMMM makes sense. Two, the pros don't bomb it on all holes, they are smart enough to give themselves the correct yardage into a hole. They know that a 40 yrd shot is an awkward distance to have. OKAY it is all coming together now. (Thinking outloud) So it could be said that on certain holes distance might be a definate advantage (par 5's) whereas on others it is not. Interesting!

[NCGolfer]

Well golf is like no other game.

Amen.

Why is it, do you think, that professional golf does not abide to the general rule closer is better? I have two ideas. One, as I have said before they must hit all their clubs so good that 60 yards difference must not be a big deal. 100 yds to 160 yds I mean it is the difference between SW and 8 iron

Or some players could hit their clubs that bad.

Two, the pros don't bomb it on all holes, they are smart enough to give themselves the correct yardage into a hole. They know that a 40 yrd shot is an awkward distance to have. OKAY it is all coming together now. (Thinking outloud) So it could be said that on certain holes distance might be a definate advantage (par 5's) whereas on others it is not. Interesting!

Interesting indeed. Look at Tiger today. He tried bombing it a bit on his last 9 and got burnt a couple times even though he was

way out there. I know he was trying to have a shorter iron into the hole, but I'd bet he'd rather have a 190 yard shot from the fairway than a 160 from deep rough or off a cartpath behind a tree.

[Rafcin]

forget all these stats. This stuff is just great:

"()... "I never try to club him," said Jim Ritterbeck, an old friend from back home in Pensacola, Fla. who caddies for Watson. "It's impossible. ... In a tournament in Utah, he hit a 6-iron 250 yards. In Midland [Texas], he hit a 6-iron 242 yards out of a trap, uphill. I've seen him hit a pitching wedge 170. He has so much talent, has all the shots."... ()"

Sick !

[jeffgladchun]

forget all these stats. This stuff is just great:

You can't argue that distance is an asset. However its just one part of a larger "whole". Distance by itself doesn't amount to much, but Bubba has a great short game and can putt lights out. Just look at his current stats.

9th in GIR (74.3%) 12th in scoring average (69) 7th in GIR from a missed fairway and although his putting average has risen slightly, he previously held the three-putt avoidance stat with zero three-putts over numerous rounds. I think the guy can play.

[Guest]

Distance means a lot, to a certain extent. If you can hit 65% of fairways hitting the ball 320, then you're better of then the other guy hitting 80% of fairways driving it 260. I don't know why people think distance doesn't matter. If you mishit your drive, but you're only 100 vs the other guy who hit it dead straight but has 170, I'm taking the 100. Now, we are talking about Pros here. They aren't going out hitting 30% of fairways. Bubba might not be the most accurate driver out there, but if he's still knocking it 330 or whatever, he's in good shape. He just needs to practice hitting shots from the rough. Another thing people don't understand is putting. Tour Pros don't make many putts outside of 8-10 feet. They honestly make about 50% of their 15 footers and it keeps going down as the putts get longer. If Bubba can work on his 120yd and in game, sticking it within 10 feet or so 70% of the time, he'll be in perfect shape.

Again, distane is neccesry unless you're spraying it and only hitting 30% of fairways.

[iacas]

If you mishit your drive, but you're only 100 vs the other guy who hit it dead straight but has 170, I'm taking the 100.

Dave has shown a number of times that this doesn't actually work out.

In looking at the proximity to the hole of the top half of long drivers versus the top half of the accurate drivers, Dave found that the long drivers average 0.4" closer to the hole... and I'm willing to bet that a large part of that comes on par fives where they're putting or chipping with their third instead of hitting a 70-yard wedge in. So no, it doesn't work out that way. And rarely is there a 70-yard discrepancy. That's 320 versus 250. That's Fred Funk vs. Bubba Watson. Guess which one's had a better year? Fred Funk. By $700,000 ($1.3M over $600k).

Now, we are talking about Pros here. They aren't going out hitting 30% of fairways. Bubba might not be the most accurate driver out there, but if he's still knocking it 330 or whatever, he's in good shape.

He may not even keep his PGA Tour card. He's over 100th on the money list.

He just needs to practice hitting shots from the rough. Another thing people don't understand is putting. Tour Pros don't make many putts outside of 8-10 feet. They honestly make about 50% of their 15 footers and it keeps going down as the putts get longer.

I think your figures are wrong. Dave Pelz says pros make 50% of their six footers. At 15 feet you're looking at around 20% conversion. Ten feet is about 30%.

[CusePhil]

Iacas, you should be a lawyer.

[iacas]

Iacas, you should be a lawyer.

I'm a scientist, which is probably even better suited to dealing with raw facts and figures than a lawyer.

[thehillgolfer]

i'm sure someone already said this but i dont feel liking going back in the thread and looking...

tiger showed us at the open championship that distance doesnt matter at all. your driver is not a scoring weapon. all tiger did was keep his ball in play and he decimated the field.

[zrlaegel]

i just wanted to bring this post back. i thought it was great debate

[Leftygolfer]

I have went back and viewed some of this thread and have to disagree with some that distance does matter. Look at college golf, there isn't an all american who doesn't have lots of power. The best players in the world are all very long. The difference between them and the driving leaders is all of 10 to 15 yards.

You can't compete against the best pros or ametuers with out distance. Do you need to be able to carry it 290 to win? No but you need to be carrying it over 250-260 to be successful in competetive golf.

Distance makes the game a heck of lot easier. There is no question it is a huge advantage.

[mcfc_nick]

only just read this thread and just wanted to tell you that scott hend finished in a tie for 3rd at the Singapore Open on the European tour this week