Do you really play golf?

[golf_junkie27]

If I don't know a ruling, I'll ask my playing partners. I try my best to know all of the rules. Heck, I learned something, here. I was always counting my strokes per hole and recording them. Come to find out that because of ESC, I could only post a max number. By "doing the right thing," I was actually cheating.

[yeis20]

  bigoak said:

A lot of people are hitting golf balls with golf clubs on a golf course but are not really playing golf.

Sounds like golf to me. Don't you have bigger things to concern yourself with like you OWN play vs that of others?

Seriously, who cares there are only a FEW times where you should even be concerning yourself with foolishness such as those mentioned. tournament, league play, or competitively with friends when stated clearly up front. That is where it truly matters. In any other circumstance, feel free to hold yourself to as tight to the rules of play as possible as many of us do so we can get a true feel on how we are really playing. I love watching people get worked up like this and ruining their OWN round because someone else decides to use a foot wedge, ball repositioning for better results, or not taking every shot into consideration on their scores. When I am playing casual with friends or a pick up group and I see someone really struggling, I offer to them to change their lie / ball location as a courtesy. I would rather see them have a chance for a good shot, then struggle 2-3 additional shots and slow down the group. There own perogative to choose to change there ball location, but the offer is simple.

[JohnTwing]

There are reasonable rules for crowded courses, and there unreasonable ones. Some rules which will occasionally get bent in non-tournament play:

• Asking a friend of mine what club he hit
• Moving off of rocks/roots/incredibly bare patches which could damage my club
• Not pulling the pin when making obvious tap-ins if others are still not on the green
• Dropping next to OOB if it rolled out there and didn't take a provisional (I usually do, though)

Yesterday I had some clown steal my ball, a drive that I hit about 240 yards into the center of the fairway. My partner was OOB right, and when I came back the ball was gone. I dropped around where it was, no penalty. Why? Because if everyone was playing serious golf those idiots wouldn't have taken my ball in the first place.

I did something similar when I rolled right (ball landed in the fairway, took a bad kick). I'm not going 220 yards back to the tee to re-tee. It'll just slow everything down.

It's not dishonest, just trying to keep the pace of play up, which is a terrible issue on municipal courses.

[CarlJr]

I just can't imagine worrying about what rules other people are using. If you saw a bunch of guys playing a game of pick-up basketball, would you make sure they were using a regulation court and using a shot clock, etc?

[DJYoshi]

  CarlJr said:

I just can't imagine worrying about what rules other people are using. If you saw a bunch of guys playing a game of pick-up basketball, would you make sure they were using a regulation court and using a shot clock, etc?

you can't really use basketball. tennis is a better analogy. streetball there are no shot clock. and the rules are stated before

check up top everything back behind the 3 line unless no backboard's touched during the original possession there are loose rules in a pickup game that aren't the same as a regulation NBA game. b/c it's a different game all to itself. the rules of golf are stated as are the rules of the pickup game. thus the course descriptions: USGA rules govern play. that means, play to the rules they've stated. and you don't see people in a pickup game of ball allowing 4 steps...if you slip and fall on water on the court...it's a travel...it's not..oh well you can keep the ball even though you traveled b/c water was on the court. and I should know about street ball here. I used to play at rucker & 4th st.... and if you're a ball fan and don't know what those parks are about and the nba ballers currently playing that have graduated from pick up games there... then you're not a fan.

[MonkeyClaw]

  firstcut said:

I think there are "competitive play" rules and "fun rules".

This sounds about right to me. As you get better, you enforce more of the rules. Why make a 40 handicapper take 3 shots out of the woods when they wanted to move the ball out and hit their next shot? Now I'm rushed because they are slow and the group behind is ready to hit. Takes the fun out of it for them and me!

IMO the cheaters are the ones that score themselves higher (to increase their handicap AKA sandbaggers) and the ones who deny that they broke a rule (improved lie, took a mulligen, etc.) when called on it. Generally the ground rules should be set at the start of the game but it doesn't always happen. But if you call someone on it and they admit it, who really cares? They are just speeding up the pace of play. If someone tells me they get two mulligens a round, who am I to argue? It doesn't mean I have to take them too. Now if they go back to the clubhouse and brag about beating you, all bets are off!!! Even then, it's not a big deal - just beat them at the next tournament

[kc8kir]

I try to abide by the rules as much as possible, within reason however. For example, if my ball ends up on rocks (which it does here in Texas), I'll take a drop no closer to the hole to get onto something softer. I don't get paid to play this game, and I've ruined enough clubs hitting off those rocks / pavement. That's about it. I also play most rounds as practice rounds where I'll do a shot over just for practice (still counting and playing the original ball though). An actual mulligan is very rare.

And who can forget the "breakfast ball". Once I start hitting the ball off the tee more consistently though, that goes out the window. My long game has been horrible lately, so I'll give myself one there so I can still go out between range sessions and enjoy a round.

Hey, I still want to enjoy this game while learning it ya know.

Now if I was playing with others, in competition, or betting, you better believe I would count everything down to the last unintentional ball quiver. I refuse to cheat under any circumstances.

[tulefog]

  JohnTwing said:

Yesterday I had some clown steal my ball, a drive that I hit about 240 yards into the center of the fairway. My partner was OOB right, and when I came back the ball was gone. I dropped around where it was, no penalty. Why? Because if everyone was playing serious golf those idiots wouldn't have taken my ball in the first place.

This was precisely in accordance with the rules, check out Rule 18-1 and Decision 18-1/5. That "clown" is an outside agency.

[CarlJr]

Regardless of the analogy, who would really be so anal as to worry about how strangers are playing a game? That was my point, not to go off on a tangent about street basketball.

[golf_junkie27]

  CarlJr said:

Regardless of the analogy, who would really be so anal as to worry about how strangers are playing a game?

Uhm, a ton of people. Golf, unlike every other major sport, is a game of integrity and honor. People call penalties on themselves, they try their best to adhere to rules and ask questions when they are not sure. That's why it matters how "strangers" play the game.

Additionally, in my experience, almost everyone that I have played with keeps either a handicap or score. Do you want to spend four hours with someone who is telling you they parred a hole that they really scored a 7 on? Or see someone who kicks the ball to a better lie and then makes "birdie?" If that doesn't bother you, kudos to you. Personally, it annoys the hell out of me because it's cheating and the last thing I want to do is play golf with a cheater.

[JohnTwing]

  tulefog said:

This was precisely in accordance with the rules, check out Rule 18-1 and Decision 18-1/5. That "clown" is an outside agency.

The issue in this case is that you don't know entirely whether the outside agency took it or not, the "Known or virtually certain" part. I'd argue it was virtually certain in this case, but since we didn't see it happen, it could have easily taken a funny bounce or something.

If I'd known, that means I would have seen them do it, and I would have chased after them

[Smallville]

I find it hard to understand how people let something that someone else is doing bother them when it does not and will not affect them. If you get paired up with someone who doesn't play "your" golf, let them go on after you get out of sight of the clubhouse. Better yet, make sure you have 3 buddies with you every time you golf so you don't get paired up with a "cheater" in case you can't ditch them because the course is too crowded. And for those that worry about what that jerk that isn't even playing in your group is doing, I give up, you let too much bother you.

On the other hand, if it is a competition where score matters, by all means, stew and steam over it, I would too! But in a round that means nothing, why get so upset? I cannot imagine that the majority of people on a golf course play 100 percent by the book. In fact I would be surprised if it was even 10 percent. Maybe more than 50 percent of the people on this forum claim to play by the book but not in real life, there's just no way.

[CarlJr]

  golf_junkie27 said:

Uhm, a ton of people. Golf, unlike every other major sport, is a game of integrity and honor. People call penalties on themselves, they try their best to adhere to rules and ask questions when they are not sure. That's why it matters how "strangers" play the game.

You're comparing apples and oranges. If I'm playing *with* or *against* you, yeah I would expect we're playing by the same rules. If not, I'd expect to be upfront about it. What you're describing is lying and cheating.

But if I'm playing on a course across town from you, how could you possibly care if I drop a ball where I thought I lost one or improve my lie a little? It's unbelievable to me that something like that would even cross someone's mind. Much less go home and stew about it until you complain about it online.

[golf_junkie27]

  CarlJr said:

You're comparing apples and oranges. If I'm playing *with* or *against* you, yeah I would expect we're playing by the same rules. If not, I'd expect to be upfront about it. What you're describing is lying and cheating.

I think you're losing a little bit of what I'm saying and visa versa. When you mentioned "strangers" I thought you were referring to people you were playing with that you did not know.

The example you just used was to describe something that I can't see and not necessarily a "stranger." How would I know to care about something that I can't see? Why would something like that cross anyone's mind?Seriously, do you think anyone is going home and stewing about an event they did not witness? Back on topic and the OP's point is what's happening on the golf course and affecting you. Not something that's happening "across town."

[CarlJr]

  golf_junkie27 said:

How would I know to care about something that I can't see? Why would something like that cross anyone's mind?Seriously, do you think anyone is going home and stewing about an event they did not witness?

I think that's what this thread is about. Complaining that not everyone is playing by the same rules as the OP.

[firstcut]

  traviswise said:

I can't stand playing with people that don't play legit. Why waste your time?

  traviswise said:

I almost always play legit golf. Look at my handicap, it shows!

Errrr......

[Fourputt]

I'm a by the book player. Even when I'm the only one in sight, I play strictly by the rules when I'm playing for score. If I'm alone on the course with no one coming up behind me, I will once in a long while play a true practice round, but that is rare. I want my time on the course to count for something, even if it's only to turn it in for handicap.

The point is that unless I play by the rules, the score doesn't count for anything. It's meaningless if it can't be compared to anything that I myself, or anyone else has done. The only possible basis for comparison is when all reported rounds are played under the same policies and principles. Joe Hacker can play any way he wants to and it doesn't bother me in the least as long as he isn't competing against anyone except those who may agree with his version of golf. But if he's playing fluffed lies and illegal drops, then his scores and mine have no common meeting ground.

I see golf as the one amateur sport/game where a player in Colorado and a player in Scotland can actually have a discussion on an internet forum and both players handicaps and scores have meaning to the other because they both play the same game. They use rules that are recognized universally around the world as the rules that govern the game. Joe Hacker can't make that claim except within his little group of 3 other players because he doesn't play by those rules. And if he's posted a number in that "Handicap" box under his name in this forum then he's lying. He's only cheating himself, but it's still prevarication.

And last word to those who say they have to bend the rules because they are just beginners. If you fluff every bad lie then you are only ever going to learn how hit from fluffy lies. If you ever want to improve then you HAVE to learn to play from the lies that fate gives you. My best recommendation, instead of fluffing the lie, make a better club choice. Ball sitting down in the rough? Don't try to hack it all the way to the green with a 3 iron. Take your PW or 9 iron and get it back into play. Start easy and work your way up, and it won't take long before you are able to take a 4 or 5 iron to that same lie. Keep fluffing and you'll never reach that point.

[LoCo]

When I first started I kinda didn't care but now im starting to play it the right way!