Stack & Tilt: Driver Thread

[erwintrace08]

Hey Guys,

I thought this would need a new thread. For you guys that have tried the S&T;, let me know if you know how to figure it out.

I haven't received the DVD's yet, but just went today to try the new swing since I'm so inconsistent and do not take divots. I'm a "sweeper." I watched youtube and the S&T; site and first off, "IT WORKS." Wow. I have never hit my irons so consistent and gotten the true trajectory. Your body is much more still, so the only real movement that's noticeable is the arms and hands.

That's great because it really simplifies my swing and gives me less things to think about (because your spine stays constant with the hips on the take away). Funny because now my shots are kind of too high on the ball flight because my swing is steeper. I kept getting the "click" sound every time and it seemed like I was getting way more distance than usual. IT WAS AMAZING!!!

PROBLEMS w/ THE STACK & TILT SO FAR

1) Pushing the ball right:
Since my body has more weight on the front foot, I'm already "ahead of the ball." Thus, my arms come down "late" or behind the ball which makes my club face open. I was able to correct it by taking a more inside backswing, but I guess it just needs more practice especially with the timing.

2) Driver feels weird:
I was pushing it right, but my distance wasn't as good either. Lately, I've been hitting 290+ on my driver with a conventional swing. I tried to change back to the "normal" way and it felt totally weird now that I got used to the S&T.;

Side note on Short Game:
Seems like the short game will be even better because you already have your weight on the front foot and since the swing is now steeper, maybe you can get more backspin (at the same time it's tough with my Titleist Costco balls which are like rocks)

Questions:

1) I know some of you guys said with the S&T;, you can hook it easier because it's pretty much more "arm" and less movement with the hips which makes sense. The fact that I'm pushing it, does it mean that I have too much weight on the front foot or my body is too ahead of the ball? Is 60/40 the max for weight distribution or can you go 70/30?

2) Anyone have any luck with the driver or do you switch to a different swing? Since I'm changing my swing, I would think it's better to make everything the same to keep it simple.

Any thoughts???

Thanks so much,
Erwin

[Chilli Dipper]

If you're pushing the ball, you're not getting enough shoulder tilt on the backswing. With your weight forward and coming down on the ball at a steeper angle, you can't simply rotate your shoulders and expect to uncoil in time to be square on impact. Work on elevating your right shoulder on the takeaway, and not just rotating it like you would on a conventional swing. It's stack-and-tilt, after all, not stack-and-rotate.

[erwintrace08]

Ahhhhhh. I will try that. I haven't seen the video yet, so you are correct. I was trying to rotate. So basically, it's just straight up almost.

Do you have any insight on hitting the driver with less steep angle? How are you supposed to hit the driver?

Thanks!
e

[Surferfl7]

I've been trying to figure out the driver with stack and tilt for a while. I have made some progress but still not as consistent as I would like. I noticed this while watching Mike Weir (since I'm left handed).

Setup: I flare my front foot slightly and have the ball lined up off the heel.

Swing thoughts: For the backswing I remind my self to keep the back elbow connected (tee under armpit drill), and make sure my weight is on my forward leg.

The major change for me is now for the follow through I try to finish with my hands higher than normal. This seems to eliminate the duck hook and most of my misses are left but straight (or right for righties). However when I put a good swing in it will be about a ten yard draw with pretty good distance. Hope this helps and let me know if you try this and your results.

[Rugger]

I'm a stack and tilter. Driver has always been the most difficult but I also experienced pushing the ball as you did. You sound just like me a month or so ago.

Things that helped me-
Pushing: the problem with my pushing was not throwing my hips through enough. When I focused on really moving my hips forward on the downswing my push disappears. This isn't a hip rotation, but throwing them forward down the line.

Drives: Biggest thing for me was fluidity and rhythm. With a driver the S&T; swing often feels awkward. I usually have to step back and loosen myself up and remember that the swing is still supposed to be fluid. That helped me a lot.

Hope that helps.

[ScottRempel]

Not sure if I S&T; or not...but I think I may lol. Just made some swing adjustments which basically involve me keeping my weight on my front foot. Hitting my irons great now. I have a swing vid up in my thread in this forum.

As for the driver, I'd say I have a slightly different swing for it, and I have no issue with that. It's sort of a cross between the S&T; and a more conventional swing...I think. Definitely focusing on having that weight on the front foot but I do transfer the weight back slightly more during the backswing. Whatever I'm doing it seems to be working as I'm also hitting my driver more consistently then ever.

[Guest]

late reply - tried s/t for first time today. wow. hit about ten 7-irons in a row, absolutely pure. thought it may be a fluke, so hit about a dozen 5-irons. amazing. But with the driver, I hit it "high" on the clubface consistently. Then I looked at the instruction by the creators on golfdigest.com, and they say for the driver to pull your spine back on the downswing. PERFECT. So that is the key to your problem, at least if it is the same as mine. This swing will change my game, as I have always struggled with consistent contact but made up for it wiyh distance. now have it all.

[powermatt99]

I tried a few range sessions ago. I hit one good (about 250) and the rest I shanked off the toe. I may revisit it but there are too many other parts of my game that I need to work on to jack up my driver swing too much.

[nokmond]

When driving using S&T; what do you change as opposed to using irons?

Obviously you don't want to be hitting the ground with a driver. I've ordered the S&T; book but i'm curious to know what changes are needed.

[Bo the Golfer]

One thing I know is that you would need more of a forward hip slide to help shallow out the driver. Hopefully Erik will see this thread and give a more full explanation but that is what I am trying to do and when done correctly I am seeing some great results.

[senorchipotle]

When driving using S&T; what do you change as opposed to using irons?

well, i don't swing s&t;, but i do swing my driver pretty much down the line, at least it feels that way. it forces you to hold your wrist angle so you don't take a divot. essentially when you come to the top of your backswing. keep your head back, slide your hip forward and start turning your shoulders, all you need to worry about is staying on plane and holding your wrist angle. if you turn your shoulders properly you won't have to worry about hitting the ball cause the centrifugal force will naturally bring the clubhead into the ball. the feeling i like to have is from the top is i'm swinging the handle of the club as if it were connected to the clubhead on a string.

when you first start to swing thus, you'll probably jump a little or get up on your toes, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. but don't get out of sync.

[Stretch]

Pictures > words.

[nokmond]

Thanks for the replies guys - very helpful as ever.

My biggest problem is how to slide the hips forward? My head tends to move toward the target more than my hips. When do you start the hips moving and how should it feel?

[senorchipotle]

Thanks for the replies guys - very helpful as ever.

have you ever tried to hula hoop? when you hula you keep your head centered and move your legs and hips in an oval. well, the downswing is no different. keep your head centered and move your hips toward the target. the hips are the first thing to move, go from the ground up.

[Stretch]

When do you start the hips moving and how should it feel?

That is a deep question. There's a whole thread about it here, complete with documentary evidence that hip slide both is and isn't an optical illusion!

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/threads...LIDE-Your-Hips My own thought is to keep the left side resisting the turn back as long as I can and then everything goes left and, crucially, up from there. Doubt this is orthodox imagery.

[Zeph]

Thanks for the replies guys - very helpful as ever.

How it feels is individual, but you do not want the head to move towards the target. Slight movement forward is OK, but you want to limit it as much as you want to. That is the limit of how much you want to push the hips really. As far forward as they get without having to move the head forward as well. Feel like 95% of your weight is on the left foot at impact.

[iacas]

One thing I know is that you would need more of a forward hip slide to help shallow out the driver.

Two things for hitting the driver.

The first is that the ball is forward. It's just off your left shoulder - so naturally you're going to come into the ball on a bit of a shallower decent. Your attack angle with the driver will be close to zero because the "low point" of your swing is awfully close to your left shoulder or armpit. The second is that you need MORE hip slide with the driver. That's a shallowing component, but it'll also get more weight left so you can still come at the ball square to the arc or slightly from the inside. A little push-draw with the driver is a beautiful thing. Ball position and more hip slide. The longer the club, the more hip slide you want to feel.

[colin007]

A little push-draw with the driver is a beautiful thing.

quoted for truth...for me its like getting a glimpse of nessie or the chupacabra. almost never happens.