20+ handicappers hitting 300 yards (mild rant)

[bplewis24]

I'm not real sure what all his precise club distances are. But you couldn't hold his FJs with that little 4 iron. For someone of your stature, you sure are a weak one. Now go crazy with that knowing I could care less what you think. And my guess is...you're an idiot, and insecure.

220 is not a "little" 4 iron.  Let's not start exaggerating during this e-peen contest.  What do you estimate he hits his four iron, based on your time playing with him?

Let's all keep in mind that average PGA Tour player carries his 4i 203 , which (I'm guessing) means the longer players probably average closer to 220 while possessing the ability to hit it further than that when necessary and conditions permit.

By the way, did you ever state what the index of your Army buddy was?  Just trying to make sure we're not straying too far off topic

[14ledo81]

I know a guy who knows a guy. He's pretty rad.

I know that guy too.  Rad is an understatement.

[AntiTankNinja]

220 is not a "little" 4 iron.  Let's not start exaggerating during this e-peen contest.  What do you estimate he hits his four iron, based on your time playing with him?   Let's all keep in mind that average PGA Tour player [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/32498/trackman-data-pga-tour-vs-lpga/72#post_890442]carries his 4i 203[/URL], which (I'm guessing) means the longer players probably average closer to 220 while possessing the ability to hit it further than that when necessary and conditions permit.   By the way, did you ever state what the index of your Army buddy was?  Just trying to make sure we're not straying too far off topic :-)

I know his 5i and my 3 hybrid were right together. We were playing in a scramble tourney a few months back, we had 217 to the hole and he dropped it on the back of the green, straight over the flag, and left us a 35 foot putt. Do the math, the guy can smash....he just can't putt. :) The only PGA tour average that means anything is score.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bplewis24

220 is not a "little" 4 iron.  Let's not start exaggerating during this e-peen contest.  What do you estimate he hits his four iron, based on your time playing with him?

Let's all keep in mind that average PGA Tour player carries his 4i 203, which (I'm guessing) means the longer players probably average closer to 220 while possessing the ability to hit it further than that when necessary and conditions permit.

By the way, did you ever state what the index of your Army buddy was?  Just trying to make sure we're not straying too far off topic

I know his 5i and my 3 hybrid were right together. We were playing in a scramble tourney a few months back, we had 217 to the hole and he dropped it on the back of the green, straight over the flag, and left us a 35 foot putt. Do the math, the guy can smash....he just can't putt. :)

The only PGA tour average that means anything is score.

Really?  Again, you are severely missing something in your analysis of the situation.

If the guy on tour carries his 4I 205 yards by swinging within himself , then it definitely means something - it means that he actually knows what it takes to score, and that it isn't necessary to swing out of his socks on every shot just to impress his Mississippi ninja buddy.

The odds are that he could probably poke that 4I out 250 if he wanted to, but the pro doesn't care if you and the unwashed masses are impressed by that feat because he became a millionaire by swinging sensibly .

[Jeremie Boop]

Really?  Again, you are severely missing something in your analysis of the situation.

If the guy on tour carries his 4I 205 yards by swinging within himself, then it definitely means something - it means that he actually knows what it takes to score, and that it isn't necessary to swing out of his socks on every shot just to impress his Mississippi ninja buddy.

The odds are that he could probably poke that 4I out 250 if he wanted to, but the pro doesn't care if you and the unwashed masses are impressed by that feat because he became a millionaire by swinging sensibly.

That may be partially what he means, that pros averages don't necessarily equate to how far the can really hit the ball, but it's all their shots at varying %'s of swing. People seem to use the "average tour distance" for x club as a means to dismiss any claim that someone hits the ball further. You make the valid point that pros can and do hit the ball further than their average distance when they want/need to. Also that it's not the distance they hit their clubs that makes them a pro, but their ability to score.

[Slice of Life]

I know his 5i and my 3 hybrid were right together. We were playing in a scramble tourney a few months back, we had 217 to the hole and he dropped it on the back of the green, straight over the flag, and left us a 35 foot putt. Do the math, the guy can smash....he just can't putt. :)

The only PGA tour average that means anything is score.

No math to do. We have no clue what the elevation of the tee, green, or course is, how the wind was blowing, and I can all but guarantee you guys didn't use GPS to confirm any of these shots. Scorecard says 217, could be playing 202.

Am I correct?

[bplewis24]

That may be partially what he means, that pros averages don't necessarily equate to how far the can really hit the ball, but it's all their shots at varying %'s of swing. People seem to use the "average tour distance" for x club as a means to dismiss any claim that someone hits the ball further. You make the valid point that pros can and do hit the ball further than their average distance when they want/need to. Also that it's not the distance they hit their clubs that makes them a pro, but their ability to score.

On the flipside, people continue to pull arbitrary swing %s out of nowhere as a way to claim that guys not on tour could hit it as far as they claim to, because tour pros really hit it xx yards further than they actually do.

The reality is that pros do not hold back hitting 50 yards as far as they can the majority of the time they swing.  It's simply not in their best interest to do so.  They do not swing out of their shoes because their accuracy would suffer and so would their average distances.

So, while they could possibly hit the ball an average of 10 yards further with any given club xx times out of 10, they could also risk a mishit or an offline hit that goes 10 yards shorter xx times out of 10.  Pros are human, they also hit bad shots.  Assuming that they swing "110%" all of the time won't result in them hitting their 4i 30 yards further than their average every time.  If it did, they would do it.  That way they wouldn't have to hit their 3w or driver on that particular shot.

[Jeremie Boop]

No math to do. We have no clue what the elevation of the tee, green, or course is, how the wind was blowing, and I can all but guarantee you guys didn't use GPS to confirm any of these shots. Scorecard says 217, could be playing 202.

Am I correct?

Bigger question I have is in a scramble from 217 to hole the closest shot was still 35 ft away? That would indicate that the average hc was somewhere around mine.

On the flipside, people continue to pull arbitrary swing %s out of nowhere as a way to claim that guys not on tour could hit it as far as they claim to, because tour pros really hit it xx yards further than they actually do.

The reality is that pros do not hold back hitting 50 yards as far as they can the majority of the time they swing.  It's simply not in their best interest to do so.  They do not swing out of their shoes because their accuracy would suffer and so would their average distances.

So, while they could possibly hit the ball an average of 10 yards further with any given club xx times out of 10, they could also risk a mishit or an offline hit that goes 10 yards shorter xx times out of 10.  Pros are human, they also hit bad shots.  Assuming that they swing "110%" all of the time won't result in them hitting their 4i 30 yards further than their average every time.  If it did, they would do it.  That way they wouldn't have to hit their 3w or driver on that particular shot.

I agree, I doubt that most distances people say they can hit a club aren't truly their average. I pull a PW for shots 145-150 ish because that's what I expect to hit it. I can hit it further sometimes or shorter others though. That's a normal swing for me, not trying to kill it. Part of that is because my PW is 45* loft which is stronger than PW used to be and probably stronger than the loft pros use. I think that is part of the issue to, the lofts on a lot of our clubs are stronger than what the pros use so of course we have the potential to hit the ball a bit further than the pro average for a give club name/number.

[Slice of Life]

Bigger question I have is in a scramble from 217 to hole the closest shot was still 35 ft away? That would indicate that the average hc was somewhere around mine.

I dunno about that, 35 feet away on a 217 yard par 3 is pretty good. Makes it a pretty easy par.

GIR on a 217 yard par 3 is tough for a 20 handicap.

[Jeremie Boop]

I dunno about that, 35 feet away on a 217 yard par 3 is pretty good. Makes it a pretty easy par.

GIR on a 217 yard par 3 is tough for a 20 handicap.

Did he say it was a par 3? Also, the OP of that comment shows a 6 hc not 20 Of course, I could be wrong about how close lower handicaps would be able to get from that distance as I don't know any myself that I play with to see. I could be way off for sure.

[AntiTankNinja]

Nope, Lazer rangefinder, flat, calm. Measured it back to the flag after the shot. It was legitt, I was I the same boat y'all are, didnt want to believe it...then he did it again. I dirst time i saw him drive a ball, I wanted to call BS. believe me or not, that's not going to stop him from doing it.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

No math to do. We have no clue what the elevation of the tee, green, or course is, how the wind was blowing, and I can all but guarantee you guys didn't use GPS to confirm any of these shots. Scorecard says 217, could be playing 202.

Am I correct?

Bigger question I have is in a scramble from 217 to hole the closest shot was still 35 ft away? That would indicate that the average hc was somewhere around mine.

Really?  In any group of 4 10-12 handicappers I know, the odds are that from 217 at least 2 will miss the green (heck, a couple of them probably can't even reach the green from 217), and it's even money that all 4 will miss the green (I've played in a LOT of scrambles and 217 is a long way to to expect anything more than just getting in a good position for a two putt or an up and down).  Getting one shot within 40 feet is about the most you can expect, and even that isn't going to happen regularly.  It's possible to get lucky, but to call it normal for one shot to be 35 feet or less is stretching reality - either that or you have an elastic tape measure.

[AntiTankNinja]

It was the 2nd shot on a par 5, that putt was for eagle....we didn't make it. I'm wondering how many greens you hit from 217 out?

[Jeremie Boop]

As I said, I may be over estimating the ability of lower handicap players. From around 200 I typically am somewhere around the green, typically not on, but then again I'm a "high" handicap player and only play with others of my ability or worse except in rare occasions. I just assumed, probably wrongly, that someone 1/2 or 1/3 my hc would be able to hit greens at that distance with at least some regularity.

[Slice of Life]

Nope, Lazer rangefinder, flat, calm. Measured it back to the flag after the shot. It was legitt, I was I the same boat y'all are, didnt want to believe it...then he did it again. I dirst time i saw him drive a ball, I wanted to call BS. believe me or not, that's not going to stop him from doing it.

Fair enough. Just wanted to verify how you were getting your info.

[AntiTankNinja]

I hit a 3 hybrid with a little draw and couldn't keep it on the short side of the green. I was a bit closer actually, but wasn't putting. I range everything I can, and have a skycaddie I use as backup. My distances are very close.

[Always an 80]

I used to try and crush everything when I was young. One day a good friend of mine took me out for a lesson. I was happy at the time shooting around 86 and smashing the ball off the tee. During the lesson as I would hit each shot I was aghast at his response for me to hit it softer. Everytime he would say softer. No matter how much I eased up he would still say softer. Softer. Softer. I thought he was crazy. Could I knock the crap out of them and hit every third or fourth one 280 or longer? I could. But he changed me that day. He said he wants me to hit 250 straight each time and then I would begin to be a good golfer. He was right. Not only did my handicap drop but I started relaxing and enjoying the game more. I was no longer in a macho contest with myself. I know several guys who hit a lot in the 280 to 310 range but I now stand on the Fairway waiting for them to find their ball. I think that at some level they are missing the point and ruining the game for themselves. The wonderful feel of good solid contact and the satisfaction of watching the ball rise out in front of me is now a Zen moment that I will never trade. It is a totally personal experience. Score means nothing to me any longer. You say that you can hit one 400 yds? I am happy for you if that makes you happy. There is my take on it. I still crush one once in awhile if there is a cold beer bet on the line. And I sure wish I knew how to putt. May the inner beauty of the game be with you all.

[Dave2512]

I used to be the kill it guy. Back then I was playing long par 3 course often that had a couple of holes just over 200 yds and two at 166 and 188. I would try to hit the greens on the longest holes with an 8i. This was before lessons and I had only been at it a couple of months. One 155 yd hole played uphill at least one club and I'd try hit a PW there. Amazingly sometimes I actually did it but I have no idea how, probably thinned it and got some roll out of it. I'm certain I looked like an idiot. At my first lesson my former instructor saw me over-swinging with my former big, dopey swing. After committing a few to the hard drive we reviewed the videos. Before we finished the first video he said I know you want to hit it far but golf is about accuracy. With just one lesson under my belt I went out the next day and shot what was then my personal best.

I still hit it long, I've worked hard and I have the CO altitude advantage, but I don't look like a douche anymore. Certainly more accurate than I once was. As good as I feel about playing down to just below 10 I'm more stoked about my anti-handicap of 12. I play consistent 80's golf and I don't care if I hit a drive 295 as much as whether or not I can make a par out of it. And if I do hit one I don't spend the rest of the day trying to repeat it. I've made eagles on 2 shot par 5's and played a layup to 80 yds on the very next 418 par 4 because missing the green is never good. I've made more doubles on that hole than any this year. The guys I see out there trying to kill it may as well stay on the range. It doesn't look like they are playing golf as much as hit the ball. Reminds of what this alcoholic told me. She said it's akin to touching a hot stove over and over even though you know it's going to burn you. All they do is spend their time on the course getting into trouble and attempting another ill advised shot trying to get out of it. To each their own but if I was still out there shooting 100's I'm not sure I would have the desire to continue regardless of hitting the odd long ball.