Jack vs. Tiger: Who's the Greatest Golfer?

[ChrisP]

Listen, I know I'm in the minority on this obviously. That's fine. I'm not going to continue to fight an uphill battle against the entire board here. There's some things I agree with everyone on, there's some things I don't. I just personally think given the soft conditions the first two days and scoring opportunities out there, the play (outside of Kaymer) wasn't stellar. No one, outside of Kaymer, brought their A-game this past week. It's an opinion I believe in while others of you don't. That's all I'm saying. And I think it's a reflection right now that the top-10 players in the world are not having a good year (outside of Bubba). That kinda bolsters my point of how much we do miss Tiger right now.

[isukgolf]

I am starting to get confused ... so correct me if I am wrong ... Jack nor Tiger played last weekend???

[saevel25]

Listen, I know I'm in the minority on this obviously. That's fine. I'm not going to continue to fight an uphill battle against the entire board here. There's some things I agree with everyone on, there's some things I don't. I just personally think given the soft conditions the first two days and scoring opportunities out there, the play (outside of Kaymer) wasn't stellar. No one, outside of Kaymer, brought their A-game this past week. It's an opinion I believe in while others of you don't. That's all I'm saying. And I think it's a reflection right now that the top-10 players in the world are not having a good year (outside of Bubba). That kinda bolsters my point of how much we do miss Tiger right now.

Not really, because one incident (one tournament) does not reflect the whole quality of the top 10 players.

[mmoan2]

BTW, ESPN.com reported that Tiger wasn't watching the U.S. Open, but beginning to work on taking full swings, including with a driver. My money says he's at the Open Championship.

[ChrisP]

Not really, because one incident (one tournament) does not reflect the whole quality of the top 10 players.

No but all the tournaments this year do. And I think it's been a bad year for the top-10. Only 4 wins to speak of (2 of those by one player) and some blown final round leads by Scott and McIlroy to guys we've never heard of. If Tiger Woods was at full strength this year and in 2000 form, he would be wiping the floor with these guys, although I don't think he would have won this past week. As much as I respect Tiger, I don't think he could have matched Kaymer.

I would love to see Kaymer stay on form and go up against a strong, healthy Tiger at Liverpool (although I'm skeptical Tiger will be in form) and Rory play well. That would be awesome to see.

[bplewis24]

No but all the tournaments this year do. And I think it's been a bad year for the top-10. Only 4 wins to speak of (2 of those by one player) and some blown final round leads by Scott and McIlroy to guys we've never heard of.

Keep in mind that, the stronger and deeper the top 100 are (and obviously this is a large crux of the debate), the less dominant the top 10 are going to be.  People who claim today's strength of field is deeper than in Jack's era, would use that to bolster their argument.

[saevel25]

No but all the tournaments this year do. And I think it's been a bad year for the top-10. Only 4 wins to speak of (2 of those by one player) and some blown final round leads by Scott and McIlroy to guys we've never heard of. If Tiger Woods was at full strength this year and in 2000 form, he would be wiping the floor with these guys, although I don't think he would have won this past week. As much as I respect Tiger, I don't think he could have matched Kaymer.

I would love to see Kaymer stay on form and go up against a strong, healthy Tiger at Liverpool (although I'm skeptical Tiger will be in form) and Rory play well. That would be awesome to see.

Actually it's 5 wins. There has been 31 events on the PGA Tour website, so that means the top 10 owns 16% of them.

Now lets look at a more interesting number. Of the top 17 players in the world. They have 13 wins. That means the top 17 owns 42% of all the wins. Like I said, the top 10 is really a top 20. There are a good number of great players.

Tiger's done with the year. He wont be back in form. You saw what happened when he was off for an extended period of time before. It takes him a long time to get into his groove again. I think his ball striking will be horrible for a good 6 months. That would mean he's basically done for this year.

[ChrisP]

Actually it's 5 wins. There has been 31 events on the PGA Tour website, so that means the top 10 owns 16% of them.

Now lets look at a more interesting number. Of the top 17 players in the world. They have 13 wins. That means the top 17 owns 42% of all the wins. Like I said, the top 10 is really a top 20. There are a good number of great players.

Tiger's done with the year. He wont be back in form. You saw what happened when he was off for an extended period of time before. It takes him a long time to get into his groove again. I think his ball striking will be horrible for a good 6 months. That would mean he's basically done for this year.

I had Bubba with 4, Day with 1 and Scott with one. I forgot about Kuchar's win at the Heritage. My bad. The further you go down the WGR ranks the more you'll rack up because they move up a lot of spots when they win. Still 5 wins for the top-10 is a low number. Last year at this time if you look at the top-10, you had multiple wins from Woods, you had wins from Mickelson, McDowell, Kuchar, Snedeker, Rose and Scott. The game's best were playing at a better level. The good news is McIlroy and Scott are playing better. A month ago it looked more abysmal than it does now.I'm hoping both those guys, along with Kaymer, continue to progress to make the second half of the seaosn stronger than the first.

[metrybill]

Jack v. Tiger. It's a 2 man list, isn't it? Wonderful.

Those of you who have the math and engineering skills, try to compute how far Tiger would hit the ball with a Nicklaus,steel, heavier  43", steel shafted driver (Nicklaus), 200 sq. cm, today.

[iacas]

Those of you who have the math and engineering skills, try to compute how far Tiger would hit the ball with a Nicklaus,steel, heavier  43", steel shafted driver (Nicklaus), 200 sq. cm, today.

That's irrelevant. Plus, Tiger won the Masters in 1997 with a driver like that.

[k-troop]

I would love to see Kaymer stay on form and go up against a strong, healthy Tiger at Liverpool (although I'm skeptical Tiger will be in form) and Rory play well. That would be awesome to see.

I think we've been waiting for this scenario to play out in a major since around 2011.  It hasn't happened yet.

Those of you who have the math and engineering skills, try to compute how far Tiger would hit the ball with a Nicklaus,steel, heavier  43", steel shafted driver (Nicklaus), 200 sq. cm, today.

Judging by the 1997 Masters, he'd hit it about 40 yards past everyone else on the course.

That's irrelevant.

Plus, Tiger won the Masters in 1997 with a driver like that.

Yeah, what he said.

[turtleback]

Jack v. Tiger. It's a 2 man list, isn't it? Wonderful.

Those of you who have the math and engineering skills, try to compute how far Tiger would hit the ball with a Nicklaus,steel, heavier  43", steel shafted driver (Nicklaus), 200 sq. cm, today.

Irrelevant, since the people playing against Jack used the same equipment as he did and the people who played against Tiger used the same equipment he did.  Except when Tiger was playing with, as Phil put it, inferior equipment.  And I figured that out without using my math degree.

What IS relevant is Jack's comment that the modern equipment LEVELS the FIELD and makes it HARDER for the best players to separate themselves.

BTW, what equipment do you think Tiger was using when he blasted the field away WITH HIS LENGTH at the '97 Masters??  Oops, I see Erik beat me to that point.

[sweeper1]

Tiger can only dream about winning 18 majors. Jack had a support team at home that Tiger will never have again. After all who or what can he possibly attract now? As chi-chi said, "Jack became a legend in his spare time". Sevie hit the nail on he head, "Jack beat every body, Tiger has beat nobody. About a year before Tiger's ultimate betrayal  was exposed Lee Trevino was asked if Tiger would beat Jack's record, without hesitation he said "not a chance". Lee knew what was going on but the networks wouldn't dare reveal it because at the time Tiger was America's model man. Well guess what, "the chickens have come home to roost".

As Tiger was at his prime he was beating aged ones, new ones and golfers who were comfortable being rich just placing in the top 20 every time they played without all of the publicity.Bruce Lektize (sp) was a genius at it. Shot for shot he probably spent more time at home with a woman he loved and made more money than any other player that was able to keep his card.

Tiger's problem is he is obsessed with beating Jack. Jack was only interested in winning tournaments.That aside the obvious gets in Tiger's way. Tiger has to beat everybody in the field which now consists of too many players that have gone head to head with him and beat him. Just to name a few, he no longer raises the pulse rate of Robert Rock, Justin Rose, Louie, Rory, Phil, Martin, Adam, Patrick Reed. Jordan, Grahme, etc.

Not that the PGA is not doing everything possible to help Tiger as they are now going around the world opening up spots to 6 handicapers (all in the name of diversity mind you).

sweeper

[isukgolf]

@sweeper1 . Welcome to the sand trap! Could not follow any of your logic, but it did make me laugh ... especially with the mention of Patrick Reed Again, welcome!

[bplewis24]

Tiger can only dream about winning 18 majors. Jack had a support team at home that Tiger will never have again. After all who or what can he possibly attract now? As chi-chi said, "Jack became a legend in his spare time". Sevie hit the nail on he head, "Jack beat every body, Tiger has beat nobody. About a year before Tiger's ultimate betrayal  was exposed Lee Trevino was asked if Tiger would beat Jack's record, without hesitation he said "not a chance". Lee knew what was going on but the networks wouldn't dare reveal it because at the time Tiger was America's model man. Well guess what, "the chickens have come home to roost".

As Tiger was at his prime he was beating aged ones, new ones and golfers who were comfortable being rich just placing in the top 20 every time they played without all of the publicity.Bruce Lektize (sp) was a genius at it. Shot for shot he probably spent more time at home with a woman he loved and made more money than any other player that was able to keep his card.

Tiger's problem is he is obsessed with beating Jack. Jack was only interested in winning tournaments.That aside the obvious gets in Tiger's way. Tiger has to beat everybody in the field which now consists of too many players that have gone head to head with him and beat him. Just to name a few, he no longer raises the pulse rate of Robert Rock, Justin Rose, Louie, Rory, Phil, Martin, Adam, Patrick Reed. Jordan, Grahme, etc.

Not that the PGA is not doing everything possible to help Tiger as they are now going around the world opening up spots to 6 handicapers (all in the name of diversity mind you).

sweeper

I'd love to be able to simply make up an alternate reality myself sometimes.  It would help some days pass by easier.

[jbishop15]

Tiger can only dream about winning 18 majors. Jack had a support team at home that Tiger will never have again. After all who or what can he possibly attract now? As chi-chi said, "Jack became a legend in his spare time". Sevie hit the nail on he head, "Jack beat every body, Tiger has beat nobody. About a year before Tiger's ultimate betrayal  was exposed Lee Trevino was asked if Tiger would beat Jack's record, without hesitation he said "not a chance". Lee knew what was going on but the networks wouldn't dare reveal it because at the time Tiger was America's model man. Well guess what, "the chickens have come home to roost". As Tiger was at his prime he was beating aged ones, new ones and golfers who were comfortable being rich just placing in the top 20 every time they played without all of the publicity.Bruce Lektize (sp) was a genius at it. Shot for shot he probably spent more time at home with a woman he loved and made more money than any other player that was able to keep his card.  Tiger's problem is he is obsessed with beating Jack. Jack was only interested in winning tournaments.That aside the obvious gets in Tiger's way. Tiger has to beat everybody in the field which now consists of too many players that have gone head to head with him and beat him. Just to name a few, he no longer raises the pulse rate of Robert Rock, Justin Rose, Louie, Rory, Phil, Martin, Adam, Patrick Reed. Jordan, Grahme, etc.  Not that the PGA is not doing everything possible to help Tiger as they are now going around the world opening up spots to 6 handicapers (all in the name of diversity mind you).                          sweeper

I've seen some crazy shit on TST (where you at, logman!) but wow. "Ultimate betrayal." Come on.

[turtleback]

Tiger can only dream about winning 18 majors. Jack had a support team at home that Tiger will never have again. After all who or what can he possibly attract now? As chi-chi said, "Jack became a legend in his spare time". Sevie hit the nail on he head, "Jack beat every body, Tiger has beat nobody. About a year before Tiger's ultimate betrayal  was exposed Lee Trevino was asked if Tiger would beat Jack's record, without hesitation he said "not a chance". Lee knew what was going on but the networks wouldn't dare reveal it because at the time Tiger was America's model man. Well guess what, "the chickens have come home to roost".

As Tiger was at his prime he was beating aged ones, new ones and golfers who were comfortable being rich just placing in the top 20 every time they played without all of the publicity.Bruce Lektize (sp) was a genius at it. Shot for shot he probably spent more time at home with a woman he loved and made more money than any other player that was able to keep his card.

Tiger's problem is he is obsessed with beating Jack. Jack was only interested in winning tournaments.That aside the obvious gets in Tiger's way. Tiger has to beat everybody in the field which now consists of too many players that have gone head to head with him and beat him. Just to name a few, he no longer raises the pulse rate of Robert Rock, Justin Rose, Louie, Rory, Phil, Martin, Adam, Patrick Reed. Jordan, Grahme, etc.

Not that the PGA is not doing everything possible to help Tiger as they are now going around the world opening up spots to 6 handicapers (all in the name of diversity mind you).

sweeper

So since you have a 6 handicap, which event have they opened up to you?

[sweeper1]

Tiger can only dream about winning 18 majors. Jack had a support team at home that Tiger will never have again. After all who or what can he possibly attract now? As chi-chi said, "Jack became a legend in his spare time". Sevie hit the nail on he head, "Jack beat every body, Tiger has beat nobody. About a year before Tiger's ultimate betrayal  was exposed Lee Trevino was asked if Tiger would beat Jack's record, without hesitation he said "not a chance". Lee knew what was going on but the networks wouldn't dare reveal it because at the time Tiger was America's model man. Well guess what, "the chickens have come home to roost".

As Tiger was at his prime he was beating aged ones, new ones and golfers who were comfortable being rich just placing in the top 20 every time they played without all of the publicity.Bruce Lektize (sp) was a genius at it. Shot for shot he probably spent more time at home with a woman he loved and made more money than any other player that was able to keep his card.

Tiger's problem is he is obsessed with beating Jack. Jack was only interested in winning tournaments.That aside the obvious gets in Tiger's way. Tiger has to beat everybody in the field which now consists of too many players that have gone head to head with him and beat him. Just to name a few, he no longer raises the pulse rate of Robert Rock, Justin Rose, Louie, Rory, Phil, Martin, Adam, Patrick Reed. Jordan, Grahme, etc.

Not that the PGA is not doing everything possible to help Tiger as they are now going around the world opening up spots to 6 handicapers (all in the name of diversity mind you).

sweeper

Am so glad you asked. If you read my post carefully you will find that spots are opening all over the world (hell no, even if I was 30 again with a 3 handicap I would not travel to Tibet, just to qualify for anything)  where people of color (which is fine if they stood a chance) are taking spots from more qualified Americans. Case in point this week at the Greenbrier out of a field of approx. 154 there are 41 non-americans.  Jack beat the best as the U.S.A. is the stiffest competition there is. Henceforth this is where the $ are.

p.s. Tiger playing against Barnrarat is not the same as Jackk having to face Palmer.