Male Scratch Golfer on the LPGA Tour

[dzjc]

Having walked with a LPGA pro-am group, I can tell you first hand that the scratch golfer got creamed.  Here's a summary of what happened:

- The scratch golfer consistently out-drove the LPGA pro by an average of about 10 yards (sometimes more, sometimes less).

- However, (and this is big), the LPGA  pro played from the fairway FAR more often than the scratch golfer.  Even though the LPGA courses are short (in comparison), the scratch golfer didn't have nearly the type of skill to recover with a par every time a fairway was missed.  Which leads me to...

- The LPGA pro was masterful when it came to getting up and down from around the greens.  No comparison here at all.  In fact, the difference in bunker play alone was worth about 4 strokes.

- When the LPGA pro missed the green or fairway, it was not nearly as penal as it was for the scratch golfer, who typically missed by tens of yards.

- Suprisingly, the scratch golfer putted nearly as well as the LPGA pro.

- LPGA pros do this for a living and the hundreds of hours spent playing tournament golf each year is something that can't be duplicated by amateurs.

- The LPGA pro shot 67 and the scratch golfer shot 76.  It was truly eye-opening to watch.

Dale

[Floris]

I've had the luck to caddy in Nationwide and international events, where the courses are close to or equal to PGA conditions. I've just caddied at the National Amateur championships and what I can tell you is that an event like that is way harder then most people think. Greens are way faster, pressure is absolutely a big big factor and not getting your FIR and GIR in check means at least a bogey if not a double. My educated guess is most scratch to 4 handicappers won't break 80, and if you're not used to this kind of competition it will be really hard to break 85. I personally guess I'd have a hard time breaking 90 as my mental game isn't very good and I can totally whack a drive 20 yards off course sometimes. Mind you, I did not compete as my handicap is too high. I'd play about a 75-76 on a good day and a mid 80 on really bad days (like today: with a quadruple, triple and double bogey after nearly hitting someone in my flight that suddenly walked into my line mid-swing. That was crazy scary, couldn't shake it off :( )

[9iron]

There was an article in one of the magazines that asked if a 6 handicap, or a scratch handicap, could beat the 100th ranked female player on tour. I don't believe the 6 could do so, and I say this because my index alternates between low single digits and 6 and there is a very good college gal I play with on occasion and she beats me.

Now, a true 0 index would stand a chance to beat the 100th ranked player in my view. The 100th ranked player plays to about a 74 stroke average in most years on the LPGA, and this is with their average course playing 6200 to 6500 yards. A true 0 at a course that plays 6900 yards would seem to be playing better.

I once had a discussion where I suggested to a friend that Michelle Wei would not be a top 5 player among local men in the Philadelphia area. I suggested that we could include any player that did not have any tour status at PGA, Senior Tour, or web.com (then Nationwide). He told me I was crazy and that Wei would be the #1 player in that group.

Right now that group would include Jay Sigel (2 time US Amateur Champ), Austin Matthews (an alternate at this year's US Open and quarterfinalist at the US Amateur), at least a dozen men that have played in at least one tour event, Pete Oakley who won the British Senior Open in 2004, a few club pros like Rich Steinmetz who can go out and shoot 65 from 6900 yards on any given day, and about a dozen plus handicappers from that same distance.

I have played in events with some of the truly best players from just this area where I hit the same number of fairways and greens as some of them and they still kill me. I have a decent short game, but their short game is 3x better than mine.

I don't see Michelle Wei or anyone else ranked 100th on the LPGA scaring these guys. Me, sure. Them, no way. Just my $0.02.

[9iron]

lol I'm not sure where this thread is heading - but I definitely am skeptic over the claims of distance being reached in the past few replies.

I read the posts that you were responding to with this reply, but I'm not sure why you are so skeptical that some players can hit the ball a very long way. Us mere mortals may not be able to hit the ball that far (I sure can't), but I have seen many who can indeed hit Driver 8 iron into a 540 yard par 5. Loads of guys have the length to do this. Most of them can't score all that well, but that is an entirely different matter. Some can hit it that far, and can score too.

[theworldengine]

Lol. I think a male scratch player easily gets a career on the lpga.

[theworldengine]

A male scratch would have no problem with GIR, he's using one club less per hole ffs.

[wils5150]

i have read this whole thread and while some have valid points I will stick by my thoughts which are a scratch golfer would get his butt kicked by 80% of the field in a lpga event. I dont think people give the ladies enough credit. These girls can flat out play.

[Slice of Life]

i have read this whole thread and while some have valid points I will stick by my thoughts which are a scratch golfer would get his butt kicked by 80% of the field in a lpga event. I dont think people give the ladies enough credit. These girls can flat out play.

80%. Which means you agree he'd still be better than 20% of the pro female golfers in the field. I think that was the OP's point in the first place.

[David in FL]

[quote name="Slice of Life" url="/t/27302/male-scratch-golfer-on-the-lpga-tour/126#post_898084"] 80%. Which means you agree he'd still be better than 20% of the pro female golfers in the field. I think that was the OP's point in the first place. [/quote] And it's worth noting that a male scratch golfer is a good, but not even a great amateur. Probably isn't gonna win his club championship, and isn't nearly good enough to be competitive at even the mini-tour level..... The difference between women's and men's professional golf is huge.

[iacas]

80%. Which means you agree he'd still be better than 20% of the pro female golfers in the field. I think that was the OP's point in the first place.

I think the OP's point is that he'd be better than even 20%. He might be better than 50%. He might keep his LPGA card year after year. I think the OP's taught a few LPGA-level players, and knows how bad the middle and bottom of the LPGA players can be.

There's a HUGE difference between the men's and women's tours.

[Slice of Life]

I think the OP's point is that he'd be better than even 20%. He might be better than 50%. He might keep his LPGA card year after year. I think the OP's taught a few LPGA-level players, and knows how bad the middle and bottom of the LPGA players can be.

There's a HUGE difference between the men's and women's tours.

Ha, forgot you started this.

True though, look at the bottom half of the LPGA...terrible.

[flopster]

So next years US open will be played on the same course for the men and women, so do they let the men play first because it obviously takes time to get a course to that level of toughness and then take the mowers to it sunday evening to make it more women friendly?

[iacas]

So next years US open will be played on the same course for the men and women, so do they let the men play first because it obviously takes time to get a course to that level of toughness and then take the mowers to it sunday evening to make it more women friendly?

There's no rough, so… no. They don't take the mowers to it Sunday evening.

[David L Yskes]

Here is my thought on this thread.....

If we are talking a true Scratch male golfer, who can go anywhere and shoot par for the course or better....   then yes i give him a very good chance at being in the top 50 or better of the LPGA.....   Especially if he has a caddie and gets all the prep that the ladies get before going to a play at a tournament..  it might not happen right away, but if the guy was given a full season to prepare for this... I'd give him a good chance of winning a tournament and being a top 20 player....

I think the one thing to his dis-advantage is if he is hitting from where the ladies hit.... his distance could hurt him.... Since he is most likely use to playing from the tips at every course....  But even then, he could probably ditch the driver and just use his 3wood, and bag another Wedge or hybrid......

[wils5150]

up 80% would kick their ass the other 20 % would beat them by a stroke or two

[luu5]

And it's worth noting that a male scratch golfer is a good, but not even a great amateur. Probably isn't gonna win his club championship

Do all golf clubs have many + handicaps in their resume?

[MS256]

Here is my thought on this thread.....

If we are talking a true Scratch male golfer, who can go anywhere and shoot par for the course or better....   then yes i give him a very good chance at being in the top 50 or better of the LPGA.....   Especially if he has a caddie and gets all the prep that the ladies get before going to a play at a tournament..  it might not happen right away, but if the guy was given a full season to prepare for this... I'd give him a good chance of winning a tournament and being a top 20 player....

I think the one thing to his dis-advantage is if he is hitting from where the ladies hit.... his distance could hurt him.... Since he is most likely use to playing from the tips at every course....  But even then, he could probably ditch the driver and just use his 3wood, and bag another Wedge or hybrid......

Hmmm...That's not what "a true Scratch male golfer" is. Plenty of courses have course ratings well above par and a scratch golfer could theoretically stay scratch and NEVER shoot par on those courses.

Edit: BTW I have no idea how the typical scratch golfer would do on the LPGA Tour. My guess is that some would do very well and some wouldn't. Some can maintain a good handicap while not being very good at tournament golf.

[David in FL]

Do all golf clubs have many + handicaps in their resume?

Depending on where you are I guess.  The middle of nowhere, probably not.  A decent sized community, maybe a half dozen or more.  I'm outside of Orlando.  Lot's of golf, but not a real densely populated area by any means......no Miami, Chicago, NY, Philly, LA, etc......  My previous club (maybe 500 members) probably had a handful +1 or better, and probably another 25 under 1.  Just for reference, playing off 6ish, I was usually flighted towards the bottom of the first (not championship) flight in our club championship.

I'd imagine you could dig up a dozen or two plus hcp amateurs just in the greater Orlando area, and who knows, maybe a hundred honest scratch?