The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[ugottabjoshinme]

My guess it is your timing. Don't think in terms of backswing and downswing, think more in terms of a fluid motion with a "transition period." If you are attempting to fire your hips at the "top" of your backswing you are doing it to late and can lead to problems. You need to have the lateral motion started

Interesting thought, thanks for that. I definately think hips once I am at the top of the backswing and not before I completed my backswing. Last week at the travelers, they did a slow motion face on view of Charlie Wi, and his hips definately started moving forward before his backswing was done. Its weird because I've watched video of him before but it never really stuck out until then. I'll have to give this a try.

[BallStriker]

This morning I played my second very, very solid round in a row after getting my head around and applying some of the core S&T; principles...I know this thread is focused on the forward hip slide, but reading Eric's initial and follow up thoughts really made the light go on for me...

First and foremost, the concept of staying centered over the ball and getting the hands deep in the backswing have made my old nemesis (the backward lateral move in teh backswing) completely disappear.....and it makes a huge difference on the move forward.....I feel like I am swinging easier and the ball is exploding....what is S&T; about? Eliminating unnecessary movement

All that said, I am not consciously trying to incorporate the whole S&T; ball of wax -- I am taking it one step at a time, and may never get the whole way there -- but, the bottom line is that I am hitting the ball more solidly and more consistently than ever (14 GIRs each of last 2 times out).....to use a phrase, something has clicked.

Bottom line.....these concepts work....but implement them in building block fashion...if you work on deep hands and folding the right arm early, it is VERY EASY to stay centered over the ball...just some thoughts.

[plop]

I have a couple of questions and hope some folks here can clear these up.
- If I can hit push/draw, does it mean my hip already slide correctly? In other words, is hip slide a neccessary condition for push/draw?
- If I slide my hip correctly, would the club be on the correct downswing plane? Or I still have to drop my arms at the beginning of the downswing+slide my hip.
Thanks!

[Shanks A Million]

I have a couple of questions and hope some folks here can clear these up.

No

- If I slide my hip correctly, would the club be on the correct downswing plane? Or I still have to drop my arms at the beginning of the downswing+slide my hip. Thanks!

No, but it makes it much easier.

[swalker]

I am new here, nut I have been playing golf for three years now and this is without a doubt the best tip I have ever read, tried it on the range and it got rid of my slice and added about 20 yards to my 8 iron. Sliding the hips must have been "the secret" for me. a big thank you to iacas and everyone.

[jl923]

Is it possible to slide the hips too much? sometimes when i really concentrate on firing the hips, it feels like my arms drag behind, which results in a push/slice.

[Zeph]

The hips can move too fast and leave the upper body back, yes. It is also possible to overdo it and end up with pulling the upper centers forward.

[Paz]

Why do you think gary player kicks his right knee in right before he starts his swing? It's so that at the top he can feel like he is pushing off of the inside of his right foot. I copied this move, and it have helped my accuracy and consistancy alot, not to mention increased my distance.

Yes, yes, yes! This move has helped me so much.

[BallStriker]

Question about "deep hands." It seems that many of us amateurs are constantly being told that we take the club back too far to the inside on the backswing, which can result in a looping over the top motion on the downswing.

Eric (or some others) are probably best suited to respond to this, but I will give you my thoughts.....I think the differnce is that people get into trouble when the clubhead gets past the hands to the inside -- in other words, think of taking the club back with deep hands and you get to the position where your club is parallel to the ground (at this point in my swing, my hands are about 3 inches behind my right hip and about 3 inches in front of thigh line), your clubhead should NOT be behind your hands (and probably should be a bit out front) -- when people get the club behind their hands at this point, they are in trouble and have to re-rout.

Eric had posted some great pictures of Rickie Fowler at parallel in the backswing and his clubhead is way out in front of his hands -- much more than I feel comfortable, but gives a good image of the concept. Bottome line is that "deep hands" are good if the clubhead is in a proper position going back, and bad when it isn't.......Anyway....those are my thoughts. I also want to add that, for years, I took the club back very much "extended" with my hands staying way out front and my right arm staying extended a long time in the takeaway... only recently implemented a more compact backswing with hands getting deep soon and the right arm folding quickly....the result has been an elimiation of a backward slide of the hips in the takeaway and very much improved ballstriking and accuracy....so, Kudos to all of those who have been evangelizing those princples here....they have made a difference to me.

[iacas]

BallStriker pretty much said it, and all I have to add is that who says you have to have a loop? Take your hands back ON PLANE and return them ON PLANE. The plane goes more in ("deeper") than most people seem to think.

Also, please remember this is the Hip Slide thread, not the Deep Hands thread...

[RC]

Ballstriker has it pretty well nailed. Deep hands do not require or want a deep club head. You want room to make the downswing and that requires two things: A club that works back so it is not pointed (looking down the shaft) to the right of the target at waist high and then hip movement posting forward to allow your hip turn to take place ahead of your address position. Doing something else is a recipe for swinging over the top, hitting fat and thin, pulls and slices, and probably 99 percent of golf problems. Maybe that is over-stating it a bit... you need a grip that matches your forward leaning shaft at impact so that the ball flight is what you desire. Too weak and you get flippy, too strong and you have to have amazing timing to hold off. Anyway, the shortest route to better golf is actually pretty simple... but it has to be learned and a good teacher is the fastest way to get there. The majority of golfers see a good swing but will find it difficult to replicate based on what they feel or think they are doing. If you ask them, they might say they are doing it correctly... but video or a trained eye can see "it's not happening."

[KEEPITSIMPLE]

This is true,except I like to add couple of things. When you tell most people to slide their hip, they slide the whole left side of their body. Most pros slide with the ***hip ahead** only. I stop reading the conventional golf instruction long time ago so I don't know the term but that angle that is created by the hip or actually it could be any part of the center your body whether that is knee ,chess, hip,of even your elbows has to be ahead of your hands before it unhinges.Really you don't see anyone who learns to do that who is not a good golfer or have a good swing. The core gets ahead and the hand snaps through later.It results in the hands being ahead at impact position.


I know it sounds crazy and hard for me to explain but I know in my heart and my head this is a fact. Golf is only govern by a few scientific rules.It is a lot of people that passes bad information that makes the game hard.I don't mean to sound arrogant but unless you are a touring pro, the muscle memory is the hard part . The swing itself shouldn't be that hard to understand.

Essentially I guess I would try to explain the best I can why it is so important to "slide the hip" by simple a
common sense analogy to a fishing pole. Let say if you have a fishing pole ,to maximize energy transfer, the middle of the pole has to get ahead before the end of the pole snaps through. The middle of the pole is the core and the end of the pole is your wrist. Think about the motion of that fishing pole, the middle of that pole gets way ahead before the end of the pole snaps through.Also this draws parallel to the fact that one of the most important thing in accuracy and power is maintaining the wrist cock. the tip of the fishing pole being ahead gives no power but that is what great majority of the golfing public do when they start the swing with their arm or unhinge their wrist(or turn their forearm,same thing).And they wonder why they don't get power or accuracy.you only have the laws of physics against you.you know what I am saying.

Anyways,really, your knee joint is connected to your hip,,your hip is connected to your chess,your chess is connected to your shoulder........ the body can and should be connected as one piece just like a fishing pole when you turn and coil correctly. I truly believe that the difference between the good player and average player is that good players connect and coil their joints as one piece and know how to get ahead with their core and snap their wrist at the end.

[ugottabjoshinme]

Well, I've started to get my hips to move forward a bit instead of just spinning. Problem is my chest and head move with it. Any tips on how to get them to stay in place and only have the hips push forward?

[jl923]

how does this concept reconcile with the tilted spine at address?

[iacas]

how does this concept reconcile with the tilted spine at address?

Not sure what you mean... the spine is tilted at address. Pushing the hips forward puts in what we call "secondary axis tilt" and then, as the hips and shoulders continue to rotate that tilt - down the line - remains to keep your head in roughly the same spot it was at setup/address.

The only time the spine is at roughly the same flexion as at address is around P6. The rest of the time it's more extended (less flexed) and more tilted - left or right - than at setup.

Any tips on how to get them to stay in place and only have the hips push forward?

[Leftygolfer]

Quick question. Is this something you can consciously do or more of a product of doing things well. I have decided I am tired of getting worse and started going to the range quite a bit and also played with a guy who played well and almost looked like he'd hit every shot fat (but he didn't). One thing I noticed was just how much he stayed down through the shot and hit much better iron shots than me. Anyway, I took this image along with a smooth transition and I am hitting the ball better than ever. My divots look pro'esk. But for me, this slide forward (at the right time) is more of a result of not slinging my arms too quick but letting things happen. Is this typical?? But when I consciously try to make a more lateral move, I have a hard time hitting the ball solid.

[iacas]

Leftygolfer: you probably don't push the hips forward as much as you should. I'm 95% certain of that just based on what I know to be true. And yes, it's a conscious thing for more people.

You may have been throwing your hands and arms down at the ball more than you'd want, so holding those back gives your hips a bit more time to push forward and for you to make better contact.

Why when you think of it consciously does it fail to help you? Because a lot of people push the hips forward FAST and reasonably far. The idea is that the hips are CONTINUOUSLY moving forward. If the downswing is half a second long, the hips should still be moving forward from 0 to 0.5 seconds, not from 0 to 0.2. People who consciously try to push the hips forward sometimes do it FAST and not CONTINUOUSLY. I'd wager that you may have been doing a bit of that FAST type.

[socaltaoist]

Wow what a great thread. I feel much the same way as keepitsimple. There are some points I would add. One is that it isn't the hips that begin this motion it is the spine. The hips simply are an extension of the spine and the hub of the human body so to speak. Try not to drive the hips forward but instead think of them as floating forward directed by the spine. This puts you in an incredible position to then drive from the ground up through the legs. If you try to drive the hips with the legs it will lead to all sorts of fun times(rough, water etc). I will also go back to an earlier point I made about the timing of this motion needing to come during the backswing. One important way of physically being able to pull off these moves is to have the proper body dynamics at set up. We all know the we need to have an athletic posture. This posture ensures that we can use our body dynamically and powerfully. I have studied a martial art the last ten years and one of the fundamentals that we teach and our taught is pertinent to this conversation. Even though we all have different body types fundamentally we all work the same. To move naturally in an athletic motion requires proper alignment of the joints and the first of which that is focused on the knee joint. When you take your stance you want your knees bending naturally over/aligned with your feet. A simple way to do this is to practice by standing tall with your hands on the front of your hips and as you squat down into your stance slide your hands down the front of quads. Over exaggerate at first to get a proper feel for it then scale it back to your swing stance. This simple motion will align your knees properly and in turn will also open up your hips for greater mobility.
This might help with the movement that we are discussing. I would also say that there almost always has to be a loop in the golf swing. This can be a limited effect...but at least with the driver no one who addresses the ball with the club grounded can claim to bring the club back on the same plane and in effect a loop is created. Even a straight punch is really just two arcs one from your elbow and one from your shoulder. Enough ranting. Peace