The Biggest Secret? Slide Your Hips

[bplewis24]

Two weeks ago (after my 3rd lesson) I went to the range and was exaggerating the hip-slide and rotation.  My personal goal for that range session was simply to exaggerate the hip slide.  It's not really important why, but that was my goal.

The local pro came out and, for the third time in a couple weeks, gave me unsolicited advice.  Told me I was sliding my hips too much and how it would impact me negatively.  I said thanks but that I was purposely exaggerating it.  He explained some more that I needed to rotate more, not slide more.  I know he knows a lot more about the swing than I do, but I figured if he understood I was exaggerating the motion with a purpose, he'd let up, but he never really did.  What sucked most about it is I had been hitting the ball so well that session until he came over there.

I even showed him a version of my old swing with no hip slide or rotation to illustrate why I was exaggerating that specific sequence.  So it's interesting to see a pro trying to exaggerate it and Iacas suggesting more linear slide with the left knee bent.

Brandon

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Forgot to mention that I hit exactly one that really felt "compressed".  The ground is getting in the way right now, since that's mostly what I'm feeling, but if I can stay back enough to shallow out the attack and take the right kind of divot, I'm sure that shot would have felt perfect.  3/4 8-irons were travelling in the 170 downhill downwind area, so maybe 135-140 or so until I can get it and take a full swing.  I'll post video in a few days...

Stay back enough how? The attack is shallowed out by your head remaining relatively stable and the hips going forward (as well as the "jumping" piece). If your right shoulder is low, that's a shallow hit.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I even showed him a version of my old swing with no hip slide or rotation to illustrate why I was exaggerating that specific sequence.  So it's interesting to see a pro trying to exaggerate it and Iacas suggesting more linear slide with the left knee bent.

Good luck. By all means, if you think I'm wrong, don't do what I'm asking. However, I think I'm right, and it's much, much easier to hit the ground farther forwards and thus have a forward leaning shaft if your hips are forward... and I'd have a hard time refuting that if I were you, and not listening. :-)

Tell your pro about this thread. See what he has to say. Seriously... maybe you were over-doing it...

P.S. My drill, the "hips forward, half swing" thing that's posted via YouTube fairly often... note that the knees aren't straight there. They're not super bent, but they're not yet straight either.

[mobosecomin]

I'm sorry but I have to mention it. This is a lower handicap move IMO. The majority of mid to high handicappers I see don't have the footwork or rotation skills necessary to use this to their advantage.

While I will not argue that it is a very useful move and adds a lot to the swing but I don't think that you can start with this move and then develop the necessary hip rotation/clearing movement after it.

I see so many people who don't clear their hips properly and never get into a position where they can deliver the cub square and on plane. I believe for them to start using this move before evolving their swing to a certain point it will not work and only add problems to the swing.

One the other hand if you have a decent swing this could really add something and be great. But if you don't it could easily be a recipe for disaster. Problem is everyone think's they have an "ok" swing and this thread has nearly 50k views. I just wonder how many people are going around with crazy lateral movement in their down swing now.

Just my opinion. It's a great thread and agree with a lot that been said, some great analysis iacas.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by iacas

Good luck. By all means, if you think I'm wrong, don't do what I'm asking. However, I think I'm right, and it's much, much easier to hit the ground farther forwards and thus have a forward leaning shaft if your hips are forward... and I'd have a hard time refuting that if I were you, and not listening. :-)

I thought I was implying the opposite, actually.  But more to the point, yes I was overdoing it, but it annoyed me that he was discouraging me from doing that while I was working on it.  Besides, the way I was hitting it, I'd rather overdo it than go back to my old swing.

Brandon

[iacas]

Originally Posted by mobosecomin

I'm sorry but I have to mention it. This is a lower handicap move IMO. The majority of mid to high handicappers I see don't have the footwork or rotation skills necessary to use this to their advantage.

Probably no surprise that I disagree.

By far, way, way, way more amateurs spin too much and don't go forward enough. Their weight is back , and their low point is also back , and they hit the ball fat and thin with no shaft lean.

The majority of mid to high handicappers simply haven't been taught to do these things. They think they need to "clear their hips" when they need to get their hips (and their weight) farther forward.

You're saying that the poorer golfer needs to clear the hips and not worry about the linear component. I'm saying the opposite is more true.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I thought I was implying the opposite, actually.  But more to the point, yes I was overdoing it, but it annoyed me that he was discouraging me from doing that while I was working on it.  Besides, the way I was hitting it, I'd rather overdo it than go back to my old swing.

Roger that. Overdoing it (which is really tough to do, except perhaps the rates/ratios) is a great way to practice it.

[Stretch]

Slide to clear:

Turn to clear:

Obviously, you can make both work at a high level, but I know which I prefer .

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by iacas

Stay back enough how? The attack is shallowed out by your head remaining relatively stable and the hips going forward (as well as the "jumping" piece). If your right shoulder is low, that's a shallow hit.

I mean keep my head back and fixed once I plant the weight left on the transition.  I tend to move the whole package when I try and slide and the right shoulder gets higher than it should as a result.  I didn't think about the jumping piece, but I noticed last night while watching a lot of video that good players have a "jump" before impact that I don't have...  Especially Ernie Els and Luke Donald.  Charl Schwartzel has it too.  I'm sure everyone has it, I just haven't noticed it.  I assume from your comments it serves to raise the swing center vertically?

[GolfBear]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Slide to clear:

Turn to clear:

Obviously, you can make both work at a high level, but I know which I prefer.

Those are two excellent videos.   What I found most telling about Vicky Hurst's swing is how she loads up against her right leg.   When I tend to pull hook the ball it's usually because I over rotate and it causes all kinds of timing nightmares when I spin out too quickly.

Is it my imagination or does it look like Petterson's legs are locked on that second video?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Slide to clear:

Turn to clear:

Obviously, you can make both work at a high level, but I know which I prefer.

I think I prefer the girl at the top.  Which do you prefer?

What are we talking about again?

[bunkerputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

None

Yeah, you push off of your back leg. You push the hips forward. It's a different feeling for everyone, but a lot of golfers - myself included - often feel that the pushing comes from the right foot/knee. Again, feel isn't real and the "feelings" that work for different people are all different, but biomechanically the rear leg and the front leg both engage.

Erik,  apologies for piecemeal posts, and maybe PM is a better way to reference year old entries, but I have a question about exactly "where" to push.  Earlier, in the thread, I think it was Ringer said "Push the right knee towards the left toe".  Elsewhere it was mentioned to push directly towards the target.  It was also, referencing the relevance of the Shawn Clement video, mentioned that you need to preserve what he calls the "tush line" or basically keep the hips from moving towards the ball.  I've found that it's easier to preserve the tush line by pushing towards my left heel, so slightly left of the target.  Is this completely wrong?  I'd like to get it right, because it changes drastically the muscles involved:

Push Towards Left Toe - Gluteus Maximus

Push Towards Target - Gluteus Medius/Minimus

Push Towards Left Heel - Gluteus Medius/Minimus/Hip Flexors

Since I tailor my exercise program to golf, just curious here....

Also, could you or David explain the "push continuously for 0.5 seconds" part?  Basically push forward (or whichever direction it is defined as) all the way throughout the downswing and how this is coordinated with the "jumping" that occurs from P6 to P7?

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I think I prefer the girl at the top.  Which do you prefer?

What are we talking about again?

He's talking about sliding to clear the hips or rotating them aggressively from the top at the start of the downswing.  The point is that both can work at a relatively high level, probably not the highest level, but pretty high I'd say.  It's really not too difficult to hit a golf ball this way, as that's the way I've swung for a few years now.  It takes better tempo control and really good distance from the ball with some setup changes to make consistent contact.  The problem with aggressive rotation is that it causes earlier release which generates a lot of height.  Living in Texas, where conditions are windy, I'm losing too many shots (2 to 3) per round due to height.  There are basically two ways to play wind:  fight it, or ride it.  Fighting it perfectly lands the ball on the target line.  Riding it perfectly makes it run in the direction the wind is blowing.  So the best shot riding it can't possibly be as good as the best shot fighting it.  Where it lands and how it rolls out is really key to scoring once you start shooting 70s and want to get down to 60s.  Because of this, it's easier to fight the wind if your trajectory is lower to begin with.  It takes less side spin since the ball is in the air a shorter duration, so you don't have to work the ball so drastically.  In those two videos, I'll let you reason about who is hitting high shots...  You can pretty much see the launch and hand position at impact, so it should be easy to determine.

Now this is something that you can work on to dial in if you want to hit it high.  Basically all you need to do is setup a little closer to the ball to account for the fact that your shoulders will be more open at impact, and rotate the hips hard from the start of the downswing.  The club will release and you'll scoop it a little launching it a mile in the air.  I'm tired of having this for my stock shot, so that's why I'm here at this thread. I'd like to keep it around, though, for when I need some major height.

[Double Bogey]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

What are we talking about again?

I think he was making the point that when chicks get involved all some of us see is the chicks themselves.

Although I really loved your explanation.  Out of it I got that I need to back up a bit from the ball ;)

[bplewis24]

[bunkerputt]

Does anyone's lower back hurt from trying to slide while keeping your head back?  What causes this?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Erik,  apologies for piecemeal posts, and maybe PM is a better way to reference year old entries, but I have a question about exactly "where" to push.  Earlier, in the thread, I think it was Ringer said "Push the right knee towards the left toe".  Elsewhere it was mentioned to push directly towards the target.  It was also, referencing the relevance of the Shawn Clement video, mentioned that you need to preserve what he calls the "tush line" or basically keep the hips from moving towards the ball.  I've found that it's easier to preserve the tush line by pushing towards my left heel, so slightly left of the target.  Is this completely wrong?  I'd like to get it right, because it changes drastically the muscles involved:

Push Towards Left Toe - Gluteus Maximus

Push Towards Target - Gluteus Medius/Minimus

Push Towards Left Heel - Gluteus Medius/Minimus/Hip Flexors

Since I tailor my exercise program to golf, just curious here....

Also, could you or David explain the "push continuously for 0.5 seconds" part?  Basically push forward (or whichever direction it is defined as) all the way throughout the downswing and how this is coordinated with the "jumping" that occurs from P6 to P7?

Maintaining the tush line is important, but again, people will feel the "linear" component in different directions. Really the linear is almost like part of an oval - the left hip will start towards first base, and as it rotates, the direction of the linear will change to being towards the second baseman, second base, the shortstop, the third baseman, third base, the third base coach, the third base dugout... know what I mean?

Continuously. It's not just how far forward you go, it's how long you continue to go forward. Then you jump/tuck/extend.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Does anyone's lower back hurt from trying to slide while keeping your head back?  What causes this?

Honestly, I don't even worry about keeping my head back right now.  I may eventually record myself and look at it more closely, but it's not a concern yet.

How would the head getting too far forward manifest itself in the actual shot (i.e., left/right miss, thin/fat contact)?

Brandon

[Zeph]

How would the head getting too far forward manifest itself in the actual shot (i.e., left/right miss, thin/fat contact)?

Brandon

Could lead to inconsistent contact and coming too much from the inside. One should could be fat, the other thin.

[jamo]

How would the head getting too far forward manifest itself in the actual shot (i.e., left/right miss, thin/fat contact)?

Brandon

For me, it's a nasty pull hook that creeps up every now and then.