Hitting a wedge of hard ground

[GamerJG]

I have had the same issues before. It is a tougher shot than normal but I don't agree that the 60 is anyless harder to hit than a PW. You need very little bounce.

great tip, I'm gonna try that next time out. I find that I have trouble with these shots because I do give up on the shot without knowing it. I think that opening the face and making a more aggressive swing will help. Thanks for the tip!

[Hyper X Crusher]

Thanks for all the great input. I need to practice this shot (along with many other not so common shots). It is one of those things that I just dont go to the range and practice. Let alone at most ranges around here it is hard to find a piece of clay with no grass on it.

[TN94z]

When I have been stuck with this lie/shot I tend to play a "trap" with a lofted wedge. I come down steep on the ball and pinch the ball between the ground and the club - the club bottoms out just behind the ball. The ball does not pop up too high, but it does carry and lands with crazy spin to make it check up.

This is kind of what I do as well just because the amount of spin you can get on it. The last thing you want to think is "get under the ball." Just hit it like a normal wedge shot in which the club makes ball contact first instead of hitting the ground first and bouncing the leading edge into the ball.

My teacher tells me when I am practicing with my irons to find the tightest lie possible....even dirt pan if you can. He says that will tell you everything about how good your ball contact is.

[cirem22]

would practicing this shot off a mat at the range help? i realize a quality range mat has some cushion but some older mats at the range can be very hard.

[Zeph]

I'd say so yes. You feel it pretty well when hit tbe ball first and when you don't on a mat.

[TN94z]

I'd say so yes. You feel it pretty well when hit tbe ball first and when you don't on a mat.

The biggest thing when hitting off of the mat is the sound. You can hear it fairly well if you hit the ball first or the mat first. A well striken and compressed ball has such a unique sound, that you won't hear that at all if the mat was hit first. But that is a whole other topic that we have visited before.

[Zeph]

Sound too yes, but you can easily feel it too.

I've had my share of fat shots off the mat, this is how it sounds and feels to me.

When hitting the mat first hear two hits, one on the mat and one on the ball. Clack, clack. You can feel the club hitting the ball and bouncing forward and up into the ball. The ball won't go as far and have no pop!

When hitting the ball first the sound is not as high and softer. You hear one thump, or twack, or whatever. The feeling is softer, like you are trapping the ball between the club and the mat (which does not happen btw). You don't get the hard impact of the club into the mat. It will hit the mat after the ball, but with less speed and softer. Don't know how significant this is with a high lofted wedge, but with irons at least, the ball takes off on a lower plane and it's faster. You can see the ball having higher speed right away, then fading off. On a bad hit it just fly away and fall down at the same speed.

If I really don't want to hit the ground first, I may move the ball back a bit and trying to hit on the top of the ball. I won't be able to, but as long as I hit the ball first, I'm solid.

Knowing when you hit the ball first and when you don't is very important when hitting off mats. I played golf (not a lot, without a handicap) for some years before I had a sensation on the range. I moved the ball way back in my stance to make sure I hit it first. The feeling was totally different, flight much better. Until you hit the ball first, you may not know you are hitting the mat first. This is where grass ranges has it's advantage. If you do it on grass, you'll dig into the ground, lose speed, and it won't go far. On the mat you will get a much better distance, but not optimal. The mat bounce the club into the ball. Moving the ball way back just to get the feeling of hitting the ball first can be useful.

[TN94z]

Until you hit the ball first, you may not know you are hitting the mat first. This is where grass ranges has it's advantage. If you do it on grass, you'll dig into the ground, lose speed, and it won't go far. On the mat you will get a much better distance, but not optimal. The mat bounce the club into the ball. Moving the ball way back just to get the feeling of hitting the ball first can be useful.

This is why I choose sound over feel. You will hear the mat first even if you can't feel it in your hands. I guess this is all on a per person basis though, so you just have to know your own body. At the driving range I go to, their mats will catch your club about as well as the ground will. They aren't the typical green mats.

But I do agree with you that the real grass is best.

[RC]

And it should be noted that many 60 degree wedges have less bounce than a sand wedge, and those that do should be easier to hit off tight lies. Sand wedges with lots of bounce make the hard pan shot harder, not easier.

You can tell if you hit the hard pan shot correctly because the ball will bite. If you contact the ground a little early but still get the ball up, it will roll more on landing because the club bounces up into the ball producing less spin. Same is true on all tight lies and close cut grass around a green. If the ball bounces and checks to a quick stop, you have hit it correctly, if it hits and rolls out more than expected, you have bounced into it slightly.

[Zeph]

The same goes with any iron shot really. You need clean and good ball contact to create spin. That's how the good players can create spin even on a small chip, like we see on the PGA Tour. They do of course use soft balls and sharp grooves, but clean contact and hitting the ball first is a big part of the equation.

[WUTiger]

Zeph has the right idea. I asked a local pro about this, and he said:
* Hit the ball first with shallower attack angle.
* Don't be afraid of the shot coming off a little low.

Sometimes, just getting the ball on the green may be safer than trying for heroics. Consider an 8-iron pitch and run, with a little check spin, especially if you're going up hill. (This assumes you have room between trap and pin.)

[tim31x]

use your sandwedge instead of your lob in this scenario....play it almost as you would a sand shot(smooth swing, high finish, open stance and club face). it will toss the ball up into the air and have a nice soft sitting cut shot shape into the green. its what i do, either that or i'll take maybe a half to 3/4 sw and just play the shot normally. just focus on hitting down on the ball instead of trying to scoop it off the hard stuff.

[TN94z]

use your sandwedge instead of your lob in this scenario....play it almost as you would a sand shot(smooth swing, high finish, open stance and club face). it will toss the ball up into the air and have a nice soft sitting cut shot shape into the green. its what i do, either that or i'll take maybe a half to 3/4 sw and just play the shot normally. just focus on hitting down on the ball instead of trying to scoop it off the hard stuff.

The thing about a SW in this case is that most SWs will have more bounce which will make the shot tougher if you try to play it as you described. There will be little room for error. If you hit the slightest bit behind the ball, the bounce will throw the club into the ball causing a thin shot and give you different results.

[misty_mountainhop]

First thing, I'm guilty of this sometimes too. With that being said, you DO NOT need to try to really get under it. With a 60*, I would play it about the middle of my stance and address it square. You have to make a 100% mental effort to hit down on the ball. The 60 will get it up just fine. I think an open stance flop is way too risky from the lie you described. If you keep your lower body quiet and your head still, that shot is doable. Just my .02

You can play a proper wedge shot off of concrete. The ground's not as hard as you're making it out to be in your mind. You're psyching yourself out.

This is kind of what I do as well just because the amount of spin you can get on it. The last thing you want to think is "get under the ball." Just hit it like a normal wedge shot in which the club makes ball contact first instead of hitting the ground first and bouncing the leading edge into the ball.

Some spot-on points here. Too many people are talking about "getting under it". You're meant to be hitting "ball-turf"; you should not be making contact with the ground until after the ball is struck.

This is about precision and by extension an ingrained, repeating swing. It is not easy to do this without practice. If you can strike the ball properly off this sort of lie, you can hit it off anything. The point made above about practicing off the tightest lie you can find is a really good one. If you have to go over a trap, well, you're limited to club selection but if you can bump/run it with a 6-iron or something, do it; use a hybrid if you have to! Your margin for error will be greater.

[tim31x]

The thing about a SW in this case is that most SWs will have more bounce which will make the shot tougher if you try to play it as you described. There will be little room for error. If you hit the slightest bit behind the ball, the bounce will throw the club into the ball causing a thin shot and give you different results.

if you read what i had previously stated, i recommended that he open the club face, this will reduce the bounce. the goal here is to hit ball first. i understand you may believe this could cause thin shots, but with reduced bounce and the same swing(hitting down on the ball) it will reduce the risk of blading the ball. just my opinion since my sw is my go to club in situations like this and situations 115yds and in. i mainly have my lw for little flop shots and i personally prefer it out of the sand vs a sw.

[misty_mountainhop]

if you read what i had previously stated, i recommended that he

Have to disagree here. Opening the face on a standard SW (i.e. without a specific sole grind that removes part of the heel) will

increase the bounce; at best the bounce will likely stay the same. You want to decrease the bounce on a standard SW, you'll need to close the face or deloft the club at address and/or impact.

[TN94z]

Have to disagree here. Opening the face on a standard SW (i.e. without a specific sole grind that removes part of the heel) will

My point...thanks

[TN94z]

if you read what i had previously stated, i recommended that he open the club face, this will reduce the bounce. the goal here is to hit ball first. i understand you may believe this could cause thin shots, but with reduced bounce and the same swing(hitting down on the ball) it will reduce the risk of blading the ball. just my opinion since my sw is my go to club in situations like this and situations 115yds and in. i mainly have my lw for little flop shots and i personally prefer it out of the sand vs a sw.

Have to disagree here. Opening the face on a standard SW (i.e. without a specific sole grind that removes part of the heel) will

My point...thanks