The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[outlaw1984]

get the book along with the new ones

[golflax65]

  Shaggie13 said:

Originally Posted by Shaggie13

I would be good to see your swing, but one good tip to keep the left knee from caving inward towards the right knee is to flare your feet out.  This will allow your legs to move properly during the swing.  The left need moves towards the target line.

Check this set of images showing the flared feet and the proper lower body movement.

I tested out bowing my knee outwards yesterday and had great results, thank you for the tip

[Twopiece]

I used to suffer from the flips thanks to conventional golf wisdom which I received from magazines etc. Being a beginner golfer (10 months since I started) it was very frustrating to see fat shots, weak fades and inconsistent contact all around. Thanks to principles in S&T; I now hit with divots in front of my ball for all my short irons and boy the compression I'm getting in my mid irons is just oh so good. The "Thwacckkk!!" sound speaks volumes, pun intended. Most of my shots are coming out with no spin (straight) so shaping shots is getting easier with my mid irons and hybrid.

Although I don't use all principles in S&T;, staying centred, weight forward and go left (hip slide thread), removing forearm rotation in takeaway and hitting down out and through with FLW is certainly helping all my shots. Now if only S&T; could improve my putting!

The only downside to this is I hit the occasional 10 yard pull, but I blame myself as I am still young and have plenty to learn in this game. I'm thinking that I lose the steepness in my shoulder as I enter impact but I will slowly tweak this over the next 6 months.

Upside? I used to hit my 8 iron 125-130m (thats like 135-140 yards). Now I hit it straighter with a much more forward flight to 145m consistently (~160 yds). All hail hands forward and weight forward!

Thanks TST (especially Iacas and Mvmac!!!)

[golflax65]

Got my hands on the video lessons and wow, what an improvement. Much different than a lot of the stuff on youtube and a lot more detailed, went and hit the range today after watching the different lessons 2-3 times. More pure and straight shots with that nice little draw than ever before and cured my hook and straight push that was killing me.

Beforehand the fundamentals of my backswing were completely off and the weight ratios, ball alignment etc were all off. Definitely recommend the DVD's to those who can get them

[Goonsidious]

Why would someone need the dvd? Seems like all you do is keep your back leg straight, bend the front leg, and let a rip.

[iceman777]

Maybe a little more to it . Weight always forward , but to varying degrees , depending on what part of the swing ; head position ; shoulder dip ; how to start downswing re hips ,; swing path on backswing , etc ...

[golflax65]

  Goonsidious said:

Originally Posted by Goonsidious

Why would someone need the dvd? Seems like all you do is keep your back leg straight, bend the front leg, and let a rip.

Well, if you go out and try doing just that you will sooner or later run into problems like I did. The DVD set explains more than just that, mainly the swing path, the ideal set up weight ratios, the back swing and follow through patterns and solutions to fixing problems. For example I was hitting a nasty hook when I started doing this and there's a segment that explains exactly what's going wrong and how to fix it, another example is I thought my straight pushes were good shots and that I should just adjust to the left, and there's a segment for fixing that so I can just take the right aim each time.

The insight is just much more detailed than what you'll find online and if you're a visual learner like I am it helps a lot. If you can get results without it more power to you!

[SoundandFury]

I am damn sick of chunking the ball.  Despite hours of practice and abnormal amounts of googling,  I can still go on runs of 10-15 shots where I chunk the shot or hit it fat as hell.

So, I'm thinking of trying this stack and tilt thing.  Anyone with experience have any thoughts, particularly regarding consistent contact?

[vanpooten]

Most will probably redirect you here:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/30537/the-stack-and-tilt-golf-swing

[Goonsidious]

  golflax65 said:

Originally Posted by golflax65

Well, if you go out and try doing just that you will sooner or later run into problems like I did. The DVD set explains more than just that, mainly the swing path, the ideal set up weight ratios, the back swing and follow through patterns and solutions to fixing problems. For example I was hitting a nasty hook when I started doing this and there's a segment that explains exactly what's going wrong and how to fix it, another example is I thought my straight pushes were good shots and that I should just adjust to the left, and there's a segment for fixing that so I can just take the right aim each time.

The insight is just much more detailed than what you'll find online and if you're a visual learner like I am it helps a lot. If you can get results without it more power to you!

I retired my driver for a good while since I just could not hit it no matter what I did.. wicked slice.. so I've settled with teeing off with my 3-hybrid.. ha..

Today I went out with my girl, played 18.. and decided.. "you know what.. I'll put my money where my mouth is, it's Stack and Tilt time. Let's do this."

Straightened the back leg.. bent the front.. made sure a good amount of weight was in the front, and let a rip.

Incredible straight drives 90% of the time. Sure a few got a way from me because of my newly acquired driver tactic.. but just a little time to figure out exact position, etc.. will be perfect in no time.

I do feel kind of weird standing like that during setup, but if it works.. it works.

Unfortunately.. one issue has come up.. Although I go 210-220 yards off the tee.. a lot of the time it's a freaking rocket high in the air, like an air balloon. It goes way too high. How come I am popping it up? Sure I still get decent distance.. but with a 9* driver.. and these solid drives.. I didn't expect such popups. Kind of ridiculous haha.

Side note: I only use Stack & Tilt while using the driver. Every other club I use traditional.

[Lihu]

  Goonsidious said:

I retired my driver for a good while since I just could not hit it no matter what I did.. wicked slice.. so I've settled with teeing off with my 3-hybrid.. ha..  Today I went out with my girl, played 18.. and decided.. "you know what.. I'll put my money where my mouth is, it's Stack and Tilt time. Let's do this." Straightened the back leg.. bent the front.. made sure a good amount of weight was in the front, and let a rip. Incredible straight drives 90% of the time. Sure a few got a way from me because of my newly acquired driver tactic.. but just a little time to figure out exact position, etc.. will be perfect in no time. I do feel kind of weird standing like that during setup, but if it works.. it works.  Unfortunately.. one issue has come up.. Although I go 210-220 yards off the tee.. a lot of the time it's a freaking rocket high in the air, like an air balloon. It goes way too high. How come I am popping it up? Sure I still get decent distance.. but with a 9* driver.. and these solid drives.. I didn't expect such popups. Kind of ridiculous haha.  Side note: I only use Stack & Tilt while using the driver. Every other club I use traditional.

This method is really good. The only changes I made, only for longer clubs, are that the left leg (left handed swing) is taking more weight than the right during the backswing cycle. The other thing is my left leg is slightly bent and flexed. Seems to give me more force on the ball. I also setup the ball closer to the right foot. Everything is reversed for right handed playing. I have had the same high flight issues with balls using my 460cc driver. I bought a used old steel 3 wood with 15 degrees of loft. It really launches the ball only 15 degrees. This lower flight made me think to lower the tee position on my driver. So, I practice with the steel head to change my swing plane, then the results transfer back to the 460cc head. Now, my 9 degree burner driver really goes lower and more penetrating, and my 10.5 g15 goes higher as expected. I just hit into a headwind, on the driving range, so the flight was high again. However, not as high as before implementing this "new" training aide. On top of that, I did not lose as much distance into the wind as before. Now it is only on occasional hits that I hit high. Fixed part of the problem, it seems, in the last 3 weeks or so. I am taking as much advice from this forum as possible. Too bad I did not join 2 years ago when I started golf.

[golflax65]

  Goonsidious said:

Originally Posted by Goonsidious

I retired my driver for a good while since I just could not hit it no matter what I did.. wicked slice.. so I've settled with teeing off with my 3-hybrid.. ha..

Today I went out with my girl, played 18.. and decided.. "you know what.. I'll put my money where my mouth is, it's Stack and Tilt time. Let's do this."

Straightened the back leg.. bent the front.. made sure a good amount of weight was in the front, and let a rip.

Incredible straight drives 90% of the time. Sure a few got a way from me because of my newly acquired driver tactic.. but just a little time to figure out exact position, etc.. will be perfect in no time.

I do feel kind of weird standing like that during setup, but if it works.. it works.

Unfortunately.. one issue has come up.. Although I go 210-220 yards off the tee.. a lot of the time it's a freaking rocket high in the air, like an air balloon. It goes way too high. How come I am popping it up? Sure I still get decent distance.. but with a 9* driver.. and these solid drives.. I didn't expect such popups. Kind of ridiculous haha.

Side note: I only use Stack & Tilt while using the driver. Every other club I use traditional.

I'm don't think I'm fluent enough with the stack & tilt to diagnose what's going wrong, but if I had to guess it's either the ball is too high on the tee or your hip movement isn't gradual enough. I will let one of the experts give you a better answer because I am only 3 weeks into the swing and still have a lot of problems to address myself. I suggest you study up as much as you can (the videos in this thread are great help). The great thing is I am getting to the point where I can tell what went wrong with my swing using S&T; right after I hit the ball and make the fix on the spot

I did, however, get my driver working recently and it feels awesome. A local pro gave me a simple tip and it had to do with fundamentals, I had the club way too square at  address and my left hand was gripped too strong. Such a simple fix and I'm able to hit some bombs off the tee now. Your issue could be as simple as a fundamental like mine or more complex with the swing mechanics themselves. Now my problem is controlling the slice spin when I hit it, but contact has been excellent.

[Lihu]

  golflax65 said:

Originally Posted by golflax65

I'm don't think I'm fluent enough with the stack & tilt to diagnose what's going wrong, but if I had to guess it's either the ball is too high on the tee or your hip movement isn't gradual enough. I will let one of the experts give you a better answer because I am only 3 weeks into the swing and still have a lot of problems to address myself. I suggest you study up as much as you can (the videos in this thread are great help). The great thing is I am getting to the point where I can tell what went wrong with my swing using S&T; right after I hit the ball and make the fix on the spot

I did, however, get my driver working recently and it feels awesome. A local pro gave me a simple tip and it had to do with fundamentals, I had the club way too square at  address and my left hand was gripped too strong. Such a simple fix and I'm able to hit some bombs off the tee now. Your issue could be as simple as a fundamental like mine or more complex with the swing mechanics themselves. Now my problem is controlling the slice spin when I hit it, but contact has been excellent.

When you mention that the hip movement is not smooth enough, do you mean at the top of the backswing to the downswing transition? Or do you mean somewhere during the downswing?

[SloverUT]

I just purchased the book and will be making the switch to S&T; starting today.  I have been playing around 4 months now and have consistently been shooting in the mid 80's.  I will update my progress here every so often and we'll see how I do!

[golflax65]

  Lihu said:

Originally Posted by Lihu

When you mention that the hip movement is not smooth enough, do you mean at the top of the backswing to the downswing transition? Or do you mean somewhere during the downswing?

It could be both, actually. If I read correctly you said you were straightening your right leg on the back swing, so as far as hip turn goes on the back swing you should be fine. On the down swing, and especially with the driver, you want your hips to be sliding forward as long as possible on the down swing rather than a sudden hip burst. It's the gradual movement instead of just exploding the hips shift

The way I feel the swing in my head is that on my backswing I feel my shoulders rotating and my right leg straightening until the top of my backswing, and then I release the accumulators while sliding the hips forward towards the target and slightly upward so my belt buckle raises

[golflax65]

  Lihu said:

Originally Posted by Lihu

This method is really good. The only changes I made, only for longer clubs, are that the left leg (left handed swing) is taking more weight than the right during the backswing cycle. The other thing is my left leg is slightly bent and flexed. Seems to give me more force on the ball. I also setup the ball closer to the right foot. Everything is reversed for right handed playing.

I have had the same high flight issues with balls using my 460cc driver. I bought a used old steel 3 wood with 15 degrees of loft. It really launches the ball only 15 degrees. This lower flight made me think to lower the tee position on my driver.

So, I practice with the steel head to change my swing plane, then the results transfer back to the 460cc head.

Now, my 9 degree burner driver really goes lower and more penetrating, and my 10.5 g15 goes higher as expected.

I just hit into a headwind, on the driving range, so the flight was high again. However, not as high as before implementing this "new" training aide. On top of that, I did not lose as much distance into the wind as before.

Now it is only on occasional hits that I hit high. Fixed part of the problem, it seems, in the last 3 weeks or so.

I am taking as much advice from this forum as possible. Too bad I did not join 2 years ago when I started golf.

Ah  I see you're left handed. The true S&T; swing has roughly 95% of your weight on the left (your right) at the top of the backswing, and around 100% at impact. The way you are doing it has weight shift from one side to the other, which (according to S&T; guys) leads to a lot of problems

[iacas]

  golflax65 said:

Originally Posted by golflax65

Ah  I see you're left handed. The true S&T; swing has roughly 95% of your weight on the left (your right) at the top of the backswing, and around 100% at impact. The way you are doing it has weight shift from one side to the other, which (according to S&T; guys) leads to a lot of problems

That's (bold) not even close to accurate.

Note that "weight" and "pressure" are not the same thing. If you make a centered shoulder turn and start with about 50% of your weight forward at setup, 50% of your weight will be forward at the top of your backswing.

Impact is 85-95% weight forward.

[Missouri Swede]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Note that "weight" and "pressure" are not the same thing. If you make a centered shoulder turn and start with about 50% of your weight forward at setup, 50% of your weight will be forward at the top of your backswing.

It's been a while since I had to tutor physics, so I'm no expert, so correct me if I'm not understanding this. Weight is a force due to gravity and mass (F=M*A), and I know that pressure is just force per unit area. So are you pointing out a difference between (1) the force I exert on the ground through my feet due to gravity versus (2) the force I exert on the ground through my feet due to gravity added to other forces, and accounting for the surface area of my feet?