The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[keeps21]

Just a quickie - Would you class a slight shift of the left knee inwards towards the right knee (as well as towards the ball target line) during the back swing a 'death' move?

Should the left knee flex towards the ball target line only and the distance be kept between the knees?

To me, I'd say yes, as it will shift a little weight back to the right side....

[Zeph]

Just a quickie - Would you class a slight shift of the left knee inwards towards the right knee (as well as towards the ball target line) during the back swing a 'death' move? Should the left knee flex towards the ball target line only and the distance be kept between the knees? To me, I'd say yes, as it will shift a little weight back to the right side....

Depends what happends next. If you get the knee back forward along with the rest of the weight, it's not really an issue. There are good players out there doing it. It's "unnecessary", but it all depends what you do from the top. I would advice moving the front knee forward or even a little out, but again, not a death move if the downswing move is right.

[keeps21]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Depends what happends next. If you get the knee back forward along with the rest of the weight, it's not really an issue. There are good players out there doing it. It's "unnecessary", but it all depends what you do from the top. I would advice moving the front knee forward or even a little out, but again, not a death move if the downswing move is right.

Thanks Zeph. So in the interests of keeping the swing as simple as possible it'd be worthwhile working on not allowing it to move in towards the right knee.

[Zeph]

Depends how much we are talking about. A little move in is no problem. Lots of great players do this. You just have to make sure that it doesn't stay there, but move forward again with the hips. A big move to the right would require a bigger move forward again. Still possible, but not something you want to try to do. If the knee moves a little right on the backswing and moves forward on the downswing, it's fine.

[iacas]

I could flex my left knee "backwards" (away from the target) a fair amount during the backswing and be fine. But it's difficult to do that with the knee (a one-plane joint, mostly) pointed slightly forward because the toes are flared (because it's easier to push the knee forward during the downswing with the feet flared, and get your weight forward on the downswing).

It's not a "death move" but it's usually either unnecessary or just a quirk for a player. If it doesn't prevent them from getting forward on the downswing (or something else), I don't really care what it does.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by keeps21

Just a quickie - Would you class a slight shift of the left knee inwards towards the right knee (as well as towards the ball target line) during the back swing a 'death' move?

Should the left knee flex towards the ball target line only and the distance be kept between the knees?

To me, I'd say yes, as it will shift a little weight back to the right side....

As long as the player doesn't sway off the ball and then have trouble getting their weight forward at impact. If a student of mine manages to get most of their weight back over their left leg at impact despite doing this, I leave it. If my student does this and then tends to hang back during impact, I ask them to stablise the knee. Obviously, this doesn't automatically solve the issue but helps give the student a feeling of staying move centered during the backswing.

[keeps21]

Thanks guys.

I guess I'll just keep an eye on it for now and make sure it doesn't get worse. I don't want to fall into bad habits and start moving it more and more and end up translating my weight off the ball.

[keeps21]

Oh... I think the cause of this movement is not having my left foot flared out enough.

[Ty Coop]

I totally agree with the stack and tilt idealism of swinging but, I feel it's a visual deception of some degree. Much like when a baseball player powers through his home run hits. It give the visual that he's leaning back so to speak where in reality, his hips are driving through and creating separation between his upper and lower body with muscle stretch.

[byou79]

I've been practicing the S&T; swing for about 2 weeks now.  I have to say that it has improved my contact and ball striking dramatically.  Unfortunately, I do NOT have the book/DVD and have been working straight off what I've read online and what I see on youtube.  Eventually, I will be purchasing both items once I have some extra cash lying around, but I hope that some current Stack and Tilters can help me with a few basic questions...

1.  How important is it to maintain the FLAT left wrist on the takeaway?  It's always been hard for me to do so, and I am managing to strike the ball fairly well with a slight "left bend" of the wrist.

2.  On my takeaway, it's almost impossible for me to keep my head squarely facing the ball.  It always wants to slightly turn right (right-handed BTW).  Maybe I'm not flexible too much OR maybe I am taking it back WAY too far.  Thoughts?

3.  I am trying to "discover" a way to initiate the lateral hip thrust on my downswing.  I've read that some people use their right knee or right foot to start the downswing.  My question is, by doing that, doesn't it encourage putting too much weight on the right side as a way to start the swing?

4.  What type of grip is preferred on the S&T; swing?  I tend to have a strong grip, but as I am totally revamping my swing, I might as well use the preferred grip.

5.  Lastly, I make it a serious point to keep my arms connected as much as I can.  I keep my right elbow close to my torso and try to maintain consistent elbow width distance the entire swing.  Is this something I should be doing?

Thanks in advance for all the wisdom I so desperately need!

Bryan

[iacas]

Originally Posted by byou79

1.  How important is it to maintain the FLAT left wrist on the takeaway?  It's always been hard for me to do so, and I am managing to strike the ball fairly well with a slight "left bend" of the wrist.

It's not. My swing is similar to the S&T; swing and it cups slightly throughout the backswing.

Originally Posted by byou79

2.  On my takeaway, it's almost impossible for me to keep my head squarely facing the ball.  It always wants to slightly turn right (right-handed BTW).  Maybe I'm not flexible too much OR maybe I am taking it back WAY too far.  Thoughts?

Let it rotate slightly. But that doesn't mean you might not also be taking it back too far. Very few people can keep their head exactly in position and turn their shoulders 90°.

Originally Posted by byou79

3.  I am trying to "discover" a way to initiate the lateral hip thrust on my downswing.  I've read that some people use their right knee or right foot to start the downswing.  My question is, by doing that, doesn't it encourage putting too much weight on the right side as a way to start the swing?

Try using your left knee. Drive it down and forward. Not a fan of thinking of the right knee.

Originally Posted by byou79

4.  What type of grip is preferred on the S&T; swing?  I tend to have a strong grip, but as I am totally revamping my swing, I might as well use the preferred grip.

No such thing. Use the one that lets you control the clubface.

Originally Posted by byou79

5.  Lastly, I make it a serious point to keep my arms connected as much as I can.  I keep my right elbow close to my torso and try to maintain consistent elbow width distance the entire swing.  Is this something I should be doing?

Sure. But I wouldn't say it's super duper important. If you want an S&T; model swing it is a bit more important, but I don't know that I'd focus a TON on it unless it's a piece you need to improve, your top priority at that moment.

Check out this thread sometime: http://thesandtrap.com/t/55426/introducing-five-simple-keys/ .

[ChiralClubs]

Is anyone else struggling with getting to the proper shoulder turn angle?  I can't seem to get much more than 30 degrees (while maintaining a constant head position by extending my spine), whereas pros seem to be at 35-40.  I can get there, too, but when I try I end up dipping my head significantly to do it.  Anyone have any tips, or is it just a matter of not being flexible enough?  Here is an example at P3 (I am on the left):

[Mr. Desmond]

Check your address position - knees bent sufficiently, upper back rounded (and feet flared)?

I am hesitant to say much as I am learning - but straighter legs and  upright  back generally means shallow, and you want to be more steep. It's a balance.

The feeling of shoulder down is one of the first moves - I am accustomed to being more upright - so I must remind myself to go steep to start.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ChiralClubs

Is anyone else struggling with getting to the proper shoulder turn angle?  I can't seem to get much more than 30 degrees (while maintaining a constant head position by extending my spine), whereas pros seem to be at 35-40.  I can get there, too, but when I try I end up dipping my head significantly to do it.  Anyone have any tips, or is it just a matter of not being flexible enough?  Here is an example at P3 (I am on the left):

Most of the "left tilt" comes from the hips.

[ChiralClubs]

Originally Posted by iacas

Most of the "left tilt" comes from the hips.

Thanks for the visual.  I'll look out for those checkpoints.

Is the hip tilt generated by bending the left knee and straightening the right knee, or do you have to try to consciously tilt the hips?

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Check your address position - knees bent sufficiently, upper back rounded (and feet flared)?

I am hesitant to say much as I am learning - but straighter legs and  upright  back generally means shallow, and you want to be more steep. It's a balance.

The feeling of shoulder down is one of the first moves - I am accustomed to being more upright - so I must remind myself to go steep to start.

I think I do lack a bit of knee bend in my address position.  I'll definitely keep that in mind.

[Mr. Desmond]

I'd go with Erik's counsel.

But look at the S&T; book to review your setup.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ChiralClubs

Thanks for the visual.  I'll look out for those checkpoints.

Is the hip tilt generated by bending the left knee and straightening the right knee, or do you have to try to consciously tilt the hips?

I think you don't press into the ground so much, the left knee looks more bent than it really would be because I think there's less pressure in the left heel than you'd otherwise want. Do you have a My Swing thread with some videos?

Consider evolvr.com too.

[ChiralClubs]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think you don't press into the ground so much, the left knee looks more bent than it really would be because I think there's less pressure in the left heel than you'd otherwise want. Do you have a My Swing thread with some videos?

Consider evolvr.com too.

Yeah, I do have a My Swing thread with an older video.  Sorry if the questions were too personal.  Evolr looks cool, but I won't be able to play much more golf after this month (maybe next year).