Head behind the ball doesn't make sense to me...?

[live4u120]

If you keep your head behind the ball, (Speaking that you are still stacked on the top of your swing) when your club comes down, and you're still behind, won't your club meet the ball at the upswing, or top it? I don't see how you're supposed to hit down on the ball if you have to stay behind it.

I've found that it works in my downswing motion, to move my eyes a little in front of the ball, (which makes me think it might be ahead of the ball) and when I come back to the ball, the weight of the club counteracts my force, pushing my head back a slight.

I was smashing the hell out of my 7-iron this way. Is it right? Or should I go back to the traditional method? (That is, if I'm not already doing it, without knowing it? Wow I'm confused.)

[RIduffer]

Funny, I was thinking about this at the range today. Seems tricky to keep that head back, and at the same time clear to the left side and hit down on the ball. I think I have a bad habit of sliding my head forward when I transfer my weight forward. Curious to hear what others have to say on this topic.

[ks8829]

When my head moves forward I tend to push the shot. When I swing my head needs to stay behind the ball otherwise you can not be a consistent ball striker.

The head stays behind the ball and your hips are already clearing and starting to points towards the target. You gain more power when you keep your head behind the ball. This is similar to a baseball hitter, they all keep their heads still and they generate power.

[iacas]

When my head moves forward I tend to push the shot. When I swing my head needs to stay behind the ball otherwise you can not be a consistent ball striker.

For a driver... for an iron, your head is increasingly close to the ball to the point where, with a wedge, your nose is right on top of the golf ball...

Your head should remain in the place it is at address, that's all. With the driver it's already set up behind the ball. Put too much emphasis on "behind the ball" and you'll get a lot of people hitting fat shots, thin shots, and slices.

[DavidFehertysBike]

I agree with iacas. If you try to force your head to stay behind the ball you'll just hang back and make inconsistant contact. Take the club back and go through towards your target. If you have sequenced yourself corectly then all of those little dynamics things golfers worry so much about just happen on their own.

[tm22721]

The intent is to tilt your spine away from the target at transition by shifting the left hip to the target. Right shoulder drops, head drops, club drops into the slot.

[Matt M]

As usual Erik is spot on with his swing analysis. For me I find with my full swings my head behind the ball insures the ball will draw. The reason for this if your head stays behind your rotating not sliding and rotating is what your looking for. If your sliding it is much more difficult to return the club to the ball consistantly. As with Erik's post about wedges he's right your head is more over the ball. Rotation Rotation Rotation. I think hits hard to learn how much the golf swing has to do with just turning around your spine. It is an unusual move to make, but once you start getting it, it will make all the difference.

[Bo the Golfer]

As usual Erik is spot on with his swing analysis. For me I find with my full swings my head behind the ball insures the ball will draw. The reason for this if your head stays behind your rotating not sliding and rotating is what your looking for. If your sliding it is much more difficult to return the club to the ball consistantly. As with Erik's post about wedges he's right your head is more over the ball. Rotation Rotation Rotation. I think hits hard to learn how much the golf swing has to do with just turning around your spine. It is an unusual move to make, but once you start getting it, it will make all the difference.

I actually think Erik would advocate sliding a bit more than you think but that has been covered in another thread. I liked the idea of not thinking about the little moves in a golf swing and having them fall in line as long as you are executing in the proper way. As golfers we try to make this game as difficult as possible it seems.

[shortstop20]

Agreed, he's talked about that before in another thread, he was actually the creator of the thread. I believe you have to slide somewhat in order to get on your left side correctly.

[Matt M]

I actually think Erik would advocate sliding a bit more than you think but that has been covered in another thread. I liked the idea of not thinking about the little moves in a golf swing and having them fall in line as long as you are executing in the proper way. As golfers we try to make this game as difficult as possible it seems.

I'm not sure Erik advocates a slide? He may advocate a bump to the left or a shift I'm not sure a slide is what he recommends. Also I want to add its not a good swing thought or swing move to hang on your right foot/side.

[iacas]

I'm not sure Erik advocates a slide?

Yep:

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29616 - I advocate an aggressive slide of the hips forward from the top of the backswing. These images are included in the thread, but I'll link to them here too: http://iacas.org/asm/fimgs/tiger_hogan_hip_slide.jpg http://iacas.org/asm/fimgs/tiger_hip_slide.jpg http://iacas.org/asm/fimgs/faldo_hip_slide.jpg Now, you still have to TURN, but I like getting the hips as far forward as possible (without falling over, of course).

The intent is to tilt your spine away from the target at transition by shifting the left hip to the target. Right shoulder drops, head drops, club drops into the slot.

Why do you want the head to drop? That makes no sense to me... the head shouldn't drop. It makes timing the rising of the head - which can occur from about P6 (club shaft parallel to ground on downswing) - tougher... Better off keeping a consistent head position throughout the swing until well after the ball is gone.

[JackLee]

Head needs to stay aligned with the spine...So, spine tilted, head tilted, and stays there through impact. To hit down on the ball, only the lead shoulder must be ahead of the ball.

[Chas]

Well said JackLee. This is what leads to the most beautiful reverse-C position, if you're young and flexible enough to hold the thing for more than a millisecond .....

Chaps, just remember that we're talking about the HEAD, not the HIPS in this thread.

The hip bump/slide thing that Erik advocates is very powerful IMO and I'm working on it myself but it doesn't in any way contradict the premise behind this thread, which is NOT letting your head drift in front of the ball as you move through the contact zone. I agree with Erik that you should get your head back to where it was at address, not necessarily behind the ball. My head is usually a tad behind the ball at address, depending on the club of course, so the head-a-tad-behind-ball thought works for me.

I used to push the blasted ball like nobody's business, it was just killing my long and medium game. No fun at all. Preventing your head from drifting to a place in front of the ball has really dealt with that particular problem in my game and I'm very grateful for that. My enjoyjment of golf rose greatly as a result.

I agree that, if you overdo the head back thing, you're more likely to hook and/or just fail to complete the weight transfer etc. That's one reason the hips should move forward first, to promote proper weight transfer and clear the necessary space to set up the right approach. You need to do both, but they are separate issues.

[tm22721]

Yep:

The left hip must shift to the target in transition. The top of the spine shifts away from the target and drops slightly. As you see in the best ballstrikers it forms the beginning of the so called squat move.

[iacas]

The left hip must shift to the target in transition. The top of the spine shifts away from the target and drops slightly. As you see in the best ballstrikers it forms the beginning of the so called squat move.

Nah. Head doesn't drop in everyone. Tiger gets in trouble when his drops too much, and even then it really only ever tends to drop with the driver. It's on a tee, so he can go "down" a little at it and still have some room.

Here's Ben Hogan and Tiger Woods . You'll note the distinct lack of a head dropping. Sergio's head drops, but it's a result, not a cause, and is still somewhat unique to his swing. Paula Creamer and Natalie Gulbis drop their heads the most - should we emulate those swings? Not likely... Your head should remain fairly level throughout the backswing and most of the downswing.

[bunkerputt]

In my experience, getting your head in front of the ball is way more destructive than keeping it too far behind. The reason is that if you are too far behind, you can always move forward and still lag the club into impact. If you are in front, you have no choice but to cast the club and take a deep divot. Otherwise the hands leading the clubhead would cause you to top it or completely whiff the ball. It's really quite easy to hit the ball if your head is kept back as long as the hands are leading the clubhead into impact (read lag). If you are casting, you'll find that you want to move your head more forward to accommodate the flaw. Work on getting behind the ball at the top of the backswing with a neutral spine tilt and perpendicular shoulder turn. Then work on getting the transition sequencing properly. You'll find that you need an even more forward ball position than you think this way.

[tm22721]

Hogan's head drops at least an inch in every one of these backswings.

[jamo]

Here's Ben Hogan and Tiger Woods

I think those pictures are a little misleading. His head drops right when he starts the downswing but at impact he is in the process of raising his head, so if you just look at pictures of the top of the backswing and impact position, you wont see much change.