With enough practice can anybody become a pro?

[Shorty]

yea I dont get how some of these guys get to scratch in like the first year of ever golfing.

They don't.

[whatwhatwhat]

They don't.

Greg norman did, that being said he started playin at 16 and his mother was a serious golfer

[limoric]

They don't.

I believe Babe Zaharias did; she won her first tournament in the year she started playing...

[sean_miller]

Greg norman did, that being said he started playin at 16 and his mother was a serious golfer

I believe Babe Zaharias did; she won her first tournament in the year she started playing...

Those are similar odds as Rory McIlroy winning 10 majors. Suffice to say if Joe Schmo on the internet says he's been playing for 1 year and his index is listed as 0.0 or +, take his posts with a grain of salt.

[whatwhatwhat]

Those are similar odds as Rory McIlroy winning 10 majors. Suffice to say if Joe Schmo on the internet says he's been playing for 1 year and his index is listed as 0.0 or +, take his posts with a grain of salt.

If you went to a bookmaker and asked the odds on rory winning 10 majors in the next 30 years I dont think the odds would be massive, alot less than joe schmo getting to 0.0 in a year, but on topic alot of players do get to scratch in one year of playing just because you are a sceptical individual doesnt mean it doesnt happen

[sean_miller]

If you went to a bookmaker and asked the odds on rory winning 10 majors in the next 30 years I dont think the odds would be massive, alot less than joe schmo getting to 0.0 in a year, but on topic alot of players do get to scratch in one year of playing just because you are a sceptical individual doesnt mean it doesnt happen

For every Greg Norman there are thousands upon thousands of golfers who never reach scratch in spite of being good at other sports. I'm sure the world beaters and champions signing up for this thread can do it, but it's not that common.

[limoric]

I agree, I think it's a real rarity. Some people who consider themselves scratch after one year might be playing a home course with 115 slope rating or less, play a much more difficult course and perhaps they shoot in the 80's or even 90's. You are not really scratch until you have an index based on playing multiple challenging courses. My index would suggest a handicap anywhere from 5-10 depending on the slope rating of the course I play...

Some guys get to know their home course so well that their index is extremely generous...

[Brant17]

People do not understand what being a true scratch golfer means. Going out and shooting 72 by yourself, on your home course, on a nice cool afternoon does not mean you are a scratch golfer. I have played a bunch of golf since my baseball career was ended due to a shoulder injury and my definition of a scratch golfer goes like this....If you can go out on any course in your entire area from the back tees, playing in competitive atmosphere and consistantly shoot par or better then you can be considered a scratch player. I hear so many people say that they are a 1 or 2 handicap but when they get with a group of people and play they usually shoot around 82, 83. This is because the whole game changes when you play with people in competition. My sports background has allowed me to actually play better in competition. I play better when something is on the line. Most people I know play worse in competition because there muscles tighten up and there swing completely changes. Being loose is the only way to overcome that.

[Leftygolfer]

People do not understand what being a true scratch golfer means. Going out and shooting 72 by yourself, on your home course, on a nice cool afternoon does not mean you are a scratch golfer. I have played a bunch of golf since my baseball career was ended due to a shoulder injury and my definition of a scratch golfer goes like this....If you can go out on any course in your entire area from the back tees, playing in competitive atmosphere and consistantly shoot par or better then you can be considered a scratch player. I hear so many people say that they are a 1 or 2 handicap but when they get with a group of people and play they usually shoot around 82, 83. This is because the whole game changes when you play with people in competition. My sports background has allowed me to actually play better in competition. I play better when something is on the line. Most people I know play worse in competition because there muscles tighten up and there swing completely changes. Being loose is the only way to overcome that.

I don't agree with this. What makes you a "scratch" golfer is having an index of 0 or better while playing by the rules of golf and turning in your scores. If play with a guy who has been between 1 and +1 all year and he shots close to par most of the time. Everyone has blow up rounds but they don't count for your index as it only takes in account the top 10 of 20 of your last twenty scores.

[newtogolf]

To be a pro in any sport you have to have superior mental and physical abilities plus the determination to realize the full potential of thm. I went to St. John's when Chris Mullin played basketball there. In addition to having great talent he was also a gym rat and was always practicing at the school gym and his home basketball court. We had other players on the team that at the time who were deemed to have better physical assets, but not the discipline or mental strength to work as hard as Mullin did. Mullin did more with less, but his natural abilities were still beyond what the average person is born with.

[Brant17]

I don't agree with this. What makes you a "scratch" golfer is having an index of 0 or better while playing by the rules of golf and turning in your scores. If play with a guy who has been between 1 and +1 all year and he shots close to par most of the time. Everyone has blow up rounds but they don't count for your index as it only takes in account the top 10 of 20 of your last twenty scores.

Playing with your buddy on a Sunday afternoon is completely different than playing competitive golf or with a big group of people for money. You are not adding the mental pressure in with your score when you just go out and play for fun. That's why so many people talk about the mental part of the game. There is no pressure involved when you play 18 with a buddy one afternoon. To be a great golfer you have to be able to handle the mental pressure of competition. I am not saying that if you shoot par everytime on your home course that you arent a good golfer. That's awesome. And yes, on paper you would be a scratch player. I don't disagree with that. Most people will never touch par in there lifetime. However, a true scratch or + player can shoot par on any course, under any conditions, with hundreds of people watching them, and lots of money on the line. Just sayin... Its the truth

[limoric]

Playing with your buddy on a Sunday afternoon is completely different than playing competitive golf or with a big group of people for money. You are not adding the mental pressure in with your score when you just go out and play for fun. That's why so many people talk about the mental part of the game. There is no pressure involved when you play 18 with a buddy one afternoon. To be a great golfer you have to be able to handle the mental pressure of competition. I am not saying that if you shoot par every time on your home course that you arent a good golfer. That's awesome. And yes, on paper you would be a scratch player. I don't disagree with that. Most people will never touch par in there lifetime. However, a true scratch or + player can shoot par on any course, under any conditions, with hundreds of people watching them, and lots of money on the line. Just sayin... Its the truth

I agree 90%, but shooting par consistently does not make you scratch, it is your best 10 of 20 rounds and consistent with the course rating. A player might shoot 4 over on a course with 145 slope rating; this would not bring their index above zero, even if they did it 3 or 4 times. Scratch means you have an index of zero and can play to your potential often, while under pressure and on any course. If the average PGA touring pro played Ko'olau (Oahu Hawaii), they would not break par their first time. 7,300 yards, 152 slope rating...your really good scratch player would have a very difficult time...

[mdl]

Anyone who argues that athletic success at an elite level is based only on work ethic and commitment has never played a sport at an even moderately high level, or is self-deluded. I played college baseball, I consider myself a well above-average athlete compared to the whole population, and I worked OBSESSIVELY hard as a college baseball player. There was no one on my team who worked harder than I did, and few who worked as hard, and I was maybe the 5th or 6th best hitter on just my team.

Same with golf. I got paired with an 18 year old kid recently who finished his last season of high school baseball and decided to take up golf. I met him 4 months after he started. He was maybe 5'8", 140 lbs., had taken maybe half a dozen lessons, and played 2+ times a week. He put up a 78 after 3 putting I think 4 of the first 5 holes. He hit gorgeous soft-drawing drives that rolled out past 300 yards most of the time, was super smooth with his irons and hit a bunch of greens on par 5s with a long iron, and just generally embarrassed my sense of myself as a good athlete. Maybe I can blame it on the fact that I'm totally self taught and I should have taken 6 weeks of lessons when I started, but that's just self-delusion. This kid just has WAY more talent or hand-eye coordination or body control or whatever you want to call it than I do. If he stayed the same and I had time and money to play 2+ times a week and go to the range most days and take a bunch of lessons with a great instructor, I know for a fact that I could go out and shoot 3-5 over most days. But it should just be obvious that if he also works that hard he'd still be WAY better than I am.

It's just sad to pretend that you have as much talent as everyone else and if you only had the obsessive desire and time/money/mental commitment to dedicate all your energy to golf you could go out and win on the PGA tour in a few years. That's a different question from whether you could win a club championship or get into a few mini-tour tournaments with unlimited time and money. I think the answer there is that a large percentage of the people on this forum could do that. But even here, among people pretty obsessed with golf and who play fairly well, many of us couldn't do even that.

[jgreen85]

Very interesting perspective mdl. I think people have that perception of golf because you don't have to be tall, fast, jump high or anything to play it. It becomes a matter of repetition in many people's mind. I do think, given enough commitment, everyone could be scratch. That requires not just time at the range or on the course, but getting in shape, taking lessons, etc.

[airball7]

Thank you Mr. Rotella. That´s a heart warming story you brought up there.

Yeah, it's not a heartwarming story . . . factual ones often aren't.

Tolliver can count. He can also play with the lights on - he's won the CGA twice and while it's not the US Open, it IS a nationally televised event. The Michael Jordan line is stale - he was a 15 year old kid. He turned into an adult, and by 19 he was capable of playing in the NBA - by age 21 he was. Stories like Poulter or Wi or Larry Nelson, contrary to what you believe, actually reinforce the fact that these guys are special. Their talent laid inchoate; once tapped the sky was the limit. Because we've all hit the perfect shot, it's easy to get the misimpression that hard work alone is the answer to making it repeat. Hard work IS a big part of the answer - the poster who talked about Chris Mullin was dead on. He outworked everyone; if I'm not mistaken he'd pay off his high school janitor to let him in at 3am and shoot jumpers in the gym. Mullin was driven. So are tens of thousands of other 6'7" slow white guys that aspire to play shooting guard in the NBA. Don't be fooled though - beneath an unexceptional physique and ruddy complexion was a guy born with more natural talent and hand-eye coordination than anyone you've ever met. It may not look like track-and-field, but the same principles are at work; a handful of people can simply do stuff that we can't by virtue of their genetic composition. It may have taken Zach Johnson or David Toms a little longer to figure themselves out, but their limitless natural ability gave them a 25 foot ceiling where ours are five. Nobody is making it without hard work; I want to be careful not to be misunderstood on that count. Perseverance and determination is a skill also - it's silly to me when I hear this or that guy would be better if only he put in the hours, as if those things don't require tremendous discipline. However, when everyone is doing the roadwork, then what? When every single guy to your left and right has put in his ten thousand Gladwell hours - 20,000 more probably, then what? I've watched this stuff, up close and personal for sixteen years now. The only thing I've learned is that as blessed as I thought professional athletes were (with respect to the mastery of their skill), I was wrong - I grossly underestimated it. They're even more preternaturally gifted than I thought when I got into the business. This is no debate; these are just cold, hard facts. For those who think it's just dedication, I'm reminded of the Noah Cross line in Chinatown: "You may think you know what you're dealing with, but believe me, you don't."

[Jaywun]

No!!!!!!!!

[airball7]

I agree 90%, but shooting par consistently does not make you scratch, it is your best 10 of 20 rounds and consistent with the course rating. A player might shoot 4 over on a course with 145 slope rating; this would not bring their index above zero, even if they did it 3 or 4 times. Scratch means you have an index of zero and can play to your potential often, while under pressure and on any course. If the average PGA touring pro played Ko'olau (Oahu Hawaii), they would not break par their first time. 7,300 yards, 152 slope rating...your really good scratch player would have a very difficult time...

Played Winged Foot West 18 years ago with a college friend whose family had a membership. I was better then - a state tournament tested +2 or so. The course, of course was set up nothing like it would be 14 years later for the US Open with ribbon fairways and freeway grass rough. I played well and shot 80. I feel pretty confident that with 156 tour pros playing 312 rounds on that identical course the cut would have been at least a couple under par. Forgetting the pressure of hitting a golf shot with a few hundred or thousand people watching, I think 150-152 would have been a reasonable expectation for me. So I'd only miss the cut by somewhere between 10 and 15 strokes.

The USGA makes clear that handicap is primarily an indicator of potential, a fact which seems lost on a whole lot of people. Around the same time of the Winged Foot story above, there was a member of my club - Jim - who was in his mid-50s and had been an outstanding collegiate player at Colorado. This was before PCs had replaced the state golf association's handicap printouts we'd receive once a month - they were like a biblical scroll of giant green and white sheets on a continuous feed folded one page over another. During a rain delay I looked through - who'd shot the best round of the year (it had every member's last 40 scores), who'd turned in the worst, who was the worst sandbagger, etc. I then looked at Jim's index, looked at mine, and for a moment swelled with pride - I was half a shot lower. Then I looked more closely, not at the asterisked scores that counted for handicap, but for the lousy rounds that didn't. He could have made almost the same index out of his "bad" scores - 74s that didn't count and nothing above 77. Me? A whole bunch of 80s and 81s. 67s are nice, but the more salient question for us amateurs is how bad are we when we're bad? Coyne has that line in the book "scratch is shit". He's only partly right - so is +1 +2 and +3. If you're a +4 or better, can do it when the lights are on, and shoot 75 when you explode, now you've got a shot at receiving a check somewhere for your golf - maybe the Gateway Tour. Want seven figures and you'll need to do a lot better than even that. Reminds me of average driving distance - even forgetting the typical inflation, remember the 3 woods, the smother hooks, the ones that land three inches behind their ball mark after an inch of rain overnight. Then try and average 275. Not so easy.

[Leftygolfer]

Playing with your buddy on a Sunday afternoon is completely different than playing competitive golf or with a big group of people for money. You are not adding the mental pressure in with your score when you just go out and play for fun. That's why so many people talk about the mental part of the game. There is no pressure involved when you play 18 with a buddy one afternoon. To be a great golfer you have to be able to handle the mental pressure of competition. I am not saying that if you shoot par everytime on your home course that you arent a good golfer. That's awesome. And yes, on paper you would be a scratch player. I don't disagree with that. Most people will never touch par in there lifetime. However, a true scratch or + player can shoot par on any course, under any conditions, with hundreds of people watching them, and lots of money on the line. Just sayin... Its the truth

No, that is called a professional golfer. So if your index is zero playing at different courses all the time, turning in your scores and playing by the rules to a T then you aren't a scratch?? My friend played in the US open qualifier here, he didn't do great. He shot I think a 77 and 75 on a course that was something like a course rating of 74 7100 yards, with just crazy pins and soft playing long. Others in the qualifier did much worse than him and some better. If you can shot under par on any course then I suggest you turn pro and get some backers and go to Q school. That person shouldn't be in the office 9 to 5.