Trackman Data: PGA Tour vs. LPGA (With 2017 Data!

[Shanks A Million]

[OK, this is interesting stuff. I'm not familiar with the term "charactertistic time". Does that refer to the time the ball is compressed against the clubface?

That is correct. This is how they measure driver faces to determine whether or not they conform with USGA standards, if the steel test ball stays against the face too long, the COR is too high.

[laxbballgolf]

If a 48° pitching wedge hit the ball perfectly square, with no delofting, at a 0° attack angle, the launch angle would only be about 33°.

I'm interested in this, too. Do you mind saying where you got that specific number of 33° from?

[Shanks A Million]

I'm interested in this, too. Do you mind saying where you got that specific number of 33° from?

Yeah, I believe Iacas said that it was roughly 30% direction of fource, 70% face angle. So, the math is 48 x 0.7 = 33.6

[iacas]

Yeah, I believe Iacas said that it was roughly 30% direction of fource, 70% face angle. So, the math is 48 x 0.7 = 33.6

85/15 is the general rule of thumb. That may be different against the direction of the grooves though, rather than laterally. I don't know.

[Shanks A Million]

85/15 is the general rule of thumb. That may be different against the direction of the grooves though, rather than laterally. I don't know.

I would be pretty sure grooves would bring the direction of force more into play than without them. They prevent the ball from sliding up the face, and thus hold it on the face for a longer period of time. As to how much that affects it, we can't be certain. From a dry, tightly mown fairway, the difference between square grooves and a flat face is nominal, varying much more with the composition of the ball cover, but out of rough, the difference is extreme. One rule cannot really then, hold up very long, as there are so many variables.

[iacas]

They prevent the ball from sliding up the face, and thus hold it on the face for a longer period of time.

Your thus part is wrong. The grooves interact on every golf swing, so... they can't "hold it on the face for a longer period of time." They hold it on the face the same amount of time that gives you 85/15 lateral direction.

[Shanks A Million]

Your thus part is wrong. The grooves interact on every golf swing, so... they can't "hold it on the face for a longer period of time." They hold it on the face the same amount of time that gives you 85/15 lateral direction.

I could be wrong, but I'm assuming it should read, "hold it on the face in one spot for longer". I'm assuming it doesn't affect how long the ball stays on the face, but how long it stays on the same spot on the face. In theory, if the ball were stuck to the face longer in the same spot, it would gain more of the direction of force, right? If it slid, it would gain more of the face angle. I have no idea whether or not it's actually true.

[iacas]

I could be wrong, but I'm assuming it should read, "hold it on the face in one spot for longer". I'm assuming it doesn't affect how long the ball stays on the face, but how long it stays on the same spot on the face. In theory, if the ball were stuck to the face longer in the same spot, it would gain more of the direction of force, right? If it slid, it would gain more of the face angle. I have no idea whether or not it's actually true.

In short, no... The simple point is that because the grooves are perpendicular to the angle the 85/15 effect may be more like 80/20. I doubt it's much beyond that - and may even be less because the angle is so severe that it's more of a glancing blow.

[bunkerputt]

Those numbers seem awfully high. Where was this data taken, of whom and over what time frame?

[SpacklersEdge]

Awesome thread here, really interesting to see the launch angle of a wedge is only 24 degrees. They must really be hitting those things back in their stance? That's like a low bullet with a ton of spin, so it comes out low and quickly the angle of ascent climbs, and by the time it lands it is coming down steep.

[deronsizemore]

3.) Carry distances are somewhat shorter than announcers on TV tend to make them seem. (And for the ladies wow that is pretty short!)

Yeah, the announcers like to exaggerate at times. At times though, some of the guys really are hitting it that far, other times, they are getting a crap ton of roll. If you've ever been to a tour event, it's extremely eye opening to see just have far guys like Phil, Bubba, JB, etc., actually hit the ball.

[Shanks A Million]

Yeah, the announcers like to exaggerate at times. At times though, some of the guys really are hitting it that far, other times, they are getting a crap ton of roll. If you've ever been to a tour event, it's extremely eye opening to see just have far guys like Phil, Bubba, JB, etc., actually hit the ball.

How many times have you heard an announcer say, "he hit that drive 265, straight down the middle." You don't. They never mention anything but huge drives. The will say something like, "wow, he hit that 340!" but never mention the 280 shot after that. Reality is a bitch.

[deronsizemore]

How many times have you heard an announcer say, "he hit that drive 265, straight down the middle." You don't. They never mention anything but huge drives. The will say something like, "wow, he hit that 340!" but never mention the 280 shot after that. Reality is a bitch.

Exactly. You'll also notice that a lot of times they will only talk about how far someone hit the ball when it's the big hitters hitting it out there. There's a reason they are not talking about the majority of the golfers on tour and how far they hit the ball and that's because they are more "human-like" numbers compared to the 340 yard bombs Phil has been hitting as of late. You'll not hear a peep out of them when Cory Pavin hits a tee shot.

[Titleist_ProV1x]

Awesome thread here, really interesting to see the launch angle of a wedge is only 24 degrees. They must really be hitting those things back in their stance? That's like a low bullet with a ton of spin, so it comes out low and quickly the angle of ascent climbs, and by the time it lands it is coming down steep.

That is exactly what happens

[laxbballgolf]

Exactly. You'll also notice that a lot of times they will only talk about how far someone hit the ball when it's the big hitters hitting it out there. There's a reason they are not talking about the majority of the golfers on tour and how far they hit the ball and that's because they are more "human-like" numbers compared to the 340 yard bombs Phil has been hitting as of late. You'll not hear a peep out of them when Cory Pavin hits a tee shot.

Yep. Plus, in many of the top tournaments with really firm greens (like the US Open last week), when they show the distance and say what club the players pulls, the reality is that the player is trying to carry the ball to the front portion of the green because he knows it's going to release when it lands. So, when they show the yardage of 185 and the player holding a 7 iron, he still could very well be planning for a 170 yard carry.

One last thing: the driving distances are also a little inflated because of how firm and fast the fairways typically are compared to a more normal course. The roll they get on drives sometimes is just ridiculous, and of course those are the drives that the announcers tend to point out. They don't often mention the driving distance on an uphill par 4. Don't get me wrong; the PGA guys are insanely good, but their distances aren't as far away from a normal good player as people might think. Phil Mickelson, Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson, and JB Holmes, though; yeah those guys are insanely long! You can tell by comparing their drives to their playing partners' and also comparing what clubs they hit in par 3s compared to other players. They are unreal!

[Sing Golfer]

I still have to question the data, in particular the pga tour driver data.

Given everything mentioned on this thread about loft, attack angles and verticle launch then the data implies the loft on a pga tour's player is at least 11 degrees and probably much higher. We know this is not the case.

[Zeph]

Do you mean the data implies that the loft of the club is 11º or higher? Static and dynamic loft, and vertical launch are different things.

[mck]

I had no idea the LPGA is that short. Really limits the way tournaments can set up the course and still have them break par.