Swinging fast vs. Swinging hard

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/32962/swinging-fast-vs-swinging-hard/18#post_1112571"]   There are measuring devices like swing byte that can measure your cadence, but I'm not sure that the exact number is all that important. My instructor (one of the previous posters) did not have me do any tempo training. All he wants to make sure is that I do not feel "rushed" at any point in my swing if that helps at all. . . BTW, 270 yards is pretty long. ;-) [/QUOTE] Thanks, but the 270 was one of those "How the Hell did I do that" stokes that happens about once every 5 years or so. Nowhere near what I usually hit. That's why I can remember it :-).

This is way off topic but you just described the after hours beer drinkin commentary of more than a few engineers I have dealt with. It worked..what did I do..or what did I miss, which is equally popular.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBaffy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

There are measuring devices like swing byte that can measure your cadence, but I'm not sure that the exact number is all that important. My instructor (one of the previous posters) did not have me do any tempo training. All he wants to make sure is that I do not feel "rushed" at any point in my swing if that helps at all. . .

BTW, 270 yards is pretty long.

Thanks, but the 270 was one of those "How the Hell did I do that" stokes that happens about once every 5 years or so. Nowhere near what I usually hit.

That's why I can remember it .

This is way off topic but you just described the after hours beer drinkin commentary of more than a few engineers I have dealt with. It worked..what did I do..or what did I miss, which is equally popular.

Exactly, and the next day you can't remember what you need to do because you were so confident you'd remember those changes*** you and your buddies came up with after having consumed 2 or 3 pitchers of beer.

***Instead of taking notes, or if you did take notes you wiped the spilled beer up with the notes written so neatly on the napkin.

[BigBaffy]

Thanks. I'm actually thinking about switching back to an interlocking grip for that reason. I have relatively small hands (they match the hand prints Jack included in Golf My Way ), so when I was a kid, my brother taught me to use an interlocking grip.

Note: Also, Jack Nicklaus WAS golf when I was a kid, so anything he did was the ONLY way to do it.

I used that grip till I finally read Ben Hogan's Five Lessons , when I was in my thirties, and switched to the overlap grip he recommends. I've used that for over 15 years now, but I'm thinking using the interlocking grip might allow me to soften it without losing a lot of control.

I've practised it in my basement and it feels less tense in my wrists and forearms.

[GolferLee]

It is very difficult to get our brains to not want to immediately start swinging the arms as fast as we can on the way down in the backswing. The true key to getting effortless power is doing a number of things, but a quick check list would be as follows: make sure that you have your grip in your fingertips  (really feel whippy in the hands, but keep control of the club), next with tempo, I like to feel that my swing is almost the same speed until right before impact and then fire through as hard as I can (while keeping your balance). It will take some practice to get it down and is very hard to fight, but will make a huge difference. Keeping the swing smooth and steady will make it easier to keep your sequence and get yourself back to impact. So just keep thinking smooth, not slow.

[Buckeyebowman]

I think much of the confusion between "swinging hard" and "swinging fast" resides in the brain of the golfer. Swinging hard too often entails "jumping" from the top, and getting completely out of rhythm.

Swinging fast means letting the speed grow slowly, and whipping the arms, hands, and club through the impact area.

For too many people swinging hard or fast means tensing the muscles in your arms and shoulders. You don't want that! You want your muscles loose and flexible.

[Lihu]

53 minutes ago, GolferLee said:

It is very difficult to get our brains to not want to immediately start swinging the arms as fast as we can on the way down in the backswing. The true key to getting effortless power is doing a number of things, but a quick check list would be as follows: make sure that you have your grip in your fingertips  (really feel whippy in the hands, but keep control of the club), next with tempo, I like to feel that my swing is almost the same speed until right before impact and then fire through as hard as I can (while keeping your balance). It will take some practice to get it down and is very hard to fight, but will make a huge difference. Keeping the swing smooth and steady will make it easier to keep your sequence and get yourself back to impact. So just keep thinking smooth, not slow.

There's no such thing as effortless power. Arm speed comes from the core so tensing wrong muscles in the arms and shoulders is not such a great idea. That's why the golf swing is so hard to learn.

[Rainmaker]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

There's no such thing as effortless power. Arm speed comes from the core so tensing wrong muscles in the arms and shoulders is not such a great idea. That's why the golf swing is so hard to learn.

My teacher describes the downswing into impact as a "violent" motion.  What I'm really trying to set myself up to do, in my backswing, is smash the ball as freaking hard as I can.  But . .everything has to be right, or at least pretty close to right, to be able to do that and not just throw away the energy. 

[Lihu]

Just now, Rainmaker said:

My teacher describes the downswing into impact as a "violent" motion.  What I'm really trying to set myself up to do, in my backswing, is smash the ball as freaking hard as I can.  But . .everything has to be right, or at least pretty close to right, to be able to do that and not just throw away the energy. 

Agree, it's got to be directed correctly. Otherwise, that energy could end up back in your body the wrong way as well. Ouch, just thinking about it.

[Mike Boatright]

Fast is hard and vice versa it's about clearing the hips or letting the body into a full finish while at the same time swing as hard as you can and timing the bottom of the swing. If you think ''SWING FAST! Then you might get quick and twitchy basically the backswing is for loading power it's rhythmic and and deliberate like a pitcher then as you transfer down it's builds speed to the moment before impact and there it should be it's fastest.

[Ernest Jones]

Swing fast to swing hard. 

Swing hard to swing slow. 

[Rainmaker]

1 hour ago, Ernest Jones said:

Swing fast to swing hard. 

Swing hard to swing slow. 

 

I think that's what trips a lot of people up . .I know it did me.  The *hard* part is not the swing.  It's the hit with the hands.  If I'm swinging with a purpose to put my hands in position to deliver the hardest smack possible at the ball, in a correct and efficient way . .the swing itself will be quite slow.  When first starting out . .I was trying to swing hard from the top .. which is what I think a lot of beginners do . .and is definitely not a way to swing fast OR hard.

 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 3/23/2016 at 0:37 AM, Rainmaker said:

My teacher describes the downswing into impact as a "violent" motion.  What I'm really trying to set myself up to do, in my backswing, is smash the ball as freaking hard as I can.  But . .everything has to be right, or at least pretty close to right, to be able to do that and not just throw away the energy. 

I suppose "violent" could be one way to describe it. I would prefer "athletic". I think the idea of a violent swing would encourage jumping from the top. It's a mistake to begin the downswing much faster than you ended the backswing. That's a sure way to "throw away the energy". You blow it all at the top, and don't have it when you need it at the bottom.

13 hours ago, Ernest Jones said:

Swing fast to swing hard. 

Swing hard to swing slow. 

Well said! I've watched a number of Hank Haney instructional vids on the computer. One was a complete half hour lesson with a rather elderly man. He had the usual complaints, lack of distance off the tee, and hitting weak, pop up drives to the right. Hank give him some tips on grip and stance, but his major emphasis was on hitting the ball hard. He'd tell him "Hit it like you mean it!", and "Hit the ball hard this time!" One time, after such an admonition, the student said, "OK, I'll swing harder." Hank was quick to respond with "NO! I don't want you to swing harder. I want you to swing faster! There's a difference."

[Rainmaker]

5 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I suppose "violent" could be one way to describe it. I would prefer "athletic". I think the idea of a violent swing would encourage jumping from the top. It's a mistake to begin the downswing much faster than you ended the backswing. That's a sure way to "throw away the energy". You blow it all at the top, and don't have it when you need it at the bottom.

Well  .don't forget to take into consideration that he said that to me after watching me hit a bunch of shots.  He didn't say it was a violent swing . . as I re-read my post, I didn't state that the best . .he said it would become, for me, a much more violent motion with my hands.  I was (am) mostly just "hanging on" to the club.   

[Buckeyebowman]

9 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Well  .don't forget to take into consideration that he said that to me after watching me hit a bunch of shots.  He didn't say it was a violent swing . . as I re-read my post, I didn't state that the best . .he said it would become, for me, a much more violent motion with my hands.  I was (am) mostly just "hanging on" to the club.   

Ah! What he said is much more understandable in that context. My buddy was afflicted with a case of the "hang ons" several years ago. He'd make these goofy, little "steer job" swings and hang on the club for dear life! He'd ask me what he was doing wrong, and I'd demonstrate his follow through with the clubface looking at the sky waist high in his follow through, when it should be looking behind him. I told him that, basically, all he can take care of is his grip, stance, and alignment. Then he has to swing and just let the shot go! Release your hands! 

Well, it must have finally taken, because last Summer he started bombing it off the tee, beating me and winning beers off me a bit more often than I'm comfortable with! Damn my good eyes!

I sometimes think that high handicappers are afraid to let their hands go because they're afraid they'll hook it, or yank it, off the planet! They just don't realize the possibilities.