What if TaylorMade put more $ into development and less in advertising?

[tws1098]

On a completely serious note, where do you think TaylorMade could be if some of their advertising money was moved to development? I look at a brand such as Mizuno which makes, arguable, the best or one of the best lines of irons with their MP series and they seem to get along by making good products that people say good things about. Do the other companies have to advertise so much and endorse so many pros so that regular Joes will buy their product? I know when I first got into golf about 2 years ago I thought TaylorMade clubs were God sent with all the attention they got. This forum really woke me up about that.

So with my other thoughts, do you think TaylorMade would make irons comparable to say Mizuno or Titelist with more money and time spent on quality versus flashy clubs and ads? Or are their clubs better than i think, just for a different crowd (making my question irrelevant)?

[aca247]

  tws1098 said:

On a completely serious note, where do you think TaylorMade could be if some of their advertising money was moved to development? I look at a brand such as Mizuno which makes, arguable, the best or one of the best lines of irons with their MP series and they seem to get along by making good products that people say good things about. Do the other companies have to advertise so much and endorse so many pros so that regular Joes will buy their product? I know when I first got into golf about 2 years ago I thought TaylorMade clubs were God sent with all the attention they got. This forum really woke me up about that.

why would they your irons could be like mizuno but if u dont know about golf and are going to drop money on good clubs you will probaly go wth what you see on tv like taylormade, you can have the best set of irons for instance if i(nsert smaller brand here) comes out with these great set of irons that are the best. but no one knows about them or wants to try them then you arent makeing money

[zeg]

In short, no. Advertising budgets, if they're working properly, bring in more money than is spent, so it's not the case that advertising "steals" money from R&D.; If anything, they can put more into R&D; than they could do otherwise.

[tws1098]

  aca247 said:

why would they your irons could be like mizuno but if u dont know about golf and are going to drop money on good clubs you will probaly go wth what you see on tv like taylormade, you can have the best set of irons for instance if i(nsert smaller brand here) comes out with these great set of irons that are the best. but no one knows about them or wants to try them then you arent makeing money

I guess what I am getting at is that as a general consensus players on here would rather play Titleist or Mizuno over TaylorMade. Seems like I see a TM commercial every other minute on the golf channel, and it just seems like they advertise a lot in general. It was a silly question I know, but I was just wondering if based on some of their good works in the past (seems like people like some of their drivers and the RAC irons) could they be put into the same category with the elite brands or even become seen as THE elite brand with more money spent on development rather than marketing. It seems that they take shortcuts to sell clubs...delofting and using lighter shafts to make them hit farther, rather than creating innovative club head designs.

If I am way off base here, someone please tell me as I am just basing my questions/comments on golf limited knowledge.

  zeg said:

In short, no. Advertising budgets, if they're working properly, bring in more money than is spent, so it's not the case that advertising "steals" money from R&D.; If anything, they can put more into R&D; than they could do otherwise.

Alright, that makes sense. i didn't really think of it that way. If that's the case, why doesn't Mizuno advertise more (or is it that they do not have to)?

[BonoVox]

Chicken or the egg?

BTW I doubt Mizuno's Rd is more than Taylor Made.

[flintlock62]

One of my past jobs was in R&D; in consumer electronics. Advertising is a vital tool for success. I do not know the sales volume of Mizuno, but there are so many brands of golf equipment and technology is rapidly changing on a daily basis, thanks to sophisticated computer programs. Companies like Taylor Made need advertising to stay competive. How else would you know about the new club that is guaranteed to add yards and hit it straighter than anyone else? Titleist advertises heavily and is the #1 ball, so do they really need to advertise? One would think the name would simply speak for itself. Nike also advertises heavly, and their sales volume show for it. I see a lot more Nike clubs in golfers bags than I do Mizuno. My question would be, why doesn't Mizuno advertise more? Even Toyota and the evil giant Wal-Mart advertises when one would think the point is moot.

[Cussin hacker]

Manufactures have about reached a limit of what development they can do as far as improvement. The rules folks have set limits on just how far they can go with there Technology. Despite what they advertise. I just don't see clubs getting any better than they are now for a long time to come. Although companies will come out every year or two and tell you how much better this years clubs are to last years. MY .02 anyway.

[jamo]

I doubt Taylor Made/Adidas is short on R&D; money.

[flintlock62]

  Cussin hacker said:

Manufactures have about reached a limit of what development they can do as far as improvement. The rules folks have set limits on just how far they can go with there Technology. Despite what they advertise. I just don't see clubs getting any better than they are now for a long time to come. Although companies will come out every year or two and tell you how much better this years clubs are to last years. MY .02 anyway.

You are correct, my friend! Many golfers think that "new club" will make all the difference in their game. A wiser choice is money spent on lessons. By all standards, my clubs are woefully out-dated. I improved my score over 18 strokes, not by buying the latest and greatest, but by listening to what my coach had to say about my swing. My .02

[tws1098]

Thanks for the input guys, most of what you have said makes perfect sense. I guess I am going to move this in the direction that someone else said then...if Mizuno advertised more, do you think they would get more people on board (Is the shaft optimizer an attempt to help?) Their irons seem big on this forum but I rarely see them on the course (eventhough most pros I have met with say they are excellent clubs).

[-BAMA-]

i dont think mizuno needs a huge advertising program. their clubs speak for themselves.

i've seen alot of mizuno clubs in better golfer's bags... ALOT. especially the mp33's.

[tws1098]

  -BAMA- said:

i dont think mizuno needs a huge advertising program. their clubs speak for themselves.

Fair enough, thanks again for the thoughts guys. You all put things into better perspective for me.

[GaijinGolfer]

The average, casual golfer buys what they buy based upon commercials and what logos they see tour players wearing than by word of mouth. Ive talked to a lot of casual golfers who worship brands like Titleist, Callaway and Taylormade but havent even heard of Mizuno. Honestly, before I started going on golf forums, I hadnt even heard of Mizuno either.
Marketing is very important, so no, I dont think TM would be better off spending less money on advertisting and more on R&D.;

[sean_miller]

  TitleistWI said:

The average, casual golfer buys what they buy based upon commercials and what logos they see tour players wearing than by word of mouth. Ive talked to a lot of casual golfers who worship brands like Titleist, Callaway and Taylormade but havent even heard of Mizuno. Honestly, before I started going on golf forums, I hadnt even heard of Mizuno either.

I hope Mizuno sells enough pieces of equipment to stay in business, but I'm glad they don't bombard me with advertizing. If people find out Mizuno is more than just a baseball company that makes (made?) irons on the side (see H&B; and Rawlings), they might think I'm a poser who's jumping on the Mizzie bandwagon.

I doubt there are any clubmakers that spend more on R&D; than TaylorMade - the sheer volume of new product every year is testimony.

[Cussin hacker]

  TitleistWI said:

The average, casual golfer buys what they buy based upon commercials and what logos they see tour players wearing than by word of mouth. Ive talked to a lot of casual golfers who worship brands like Titleist, Callaway and Taylormade but havent even heard of Mizuno. Honestly, before I started going on golf forums, I hadnt even heard of Mizuno either.

It will be years, but if or when I buy new Irons they will be from a company like Giga Golf. I'll bet they are every bit as good as the big boys, but don't have the overhead of advertising and sponsorships to pay for. Yes they are so called clones, but great clubs none the less at a 3rd the cost.

[sean_miller]

  Cussin hacker said:

. . . every bit as good as the big boys, but don't have the overhead of advertising and sponsorships to pay for. Yes they are so called clones . . .

If you can get 20 years of quality golf out of a set of clones, go for it.

[tws1098]

  sean_miller said:

If you can get 20 years of quality golf out of a set of clones, go for it.

That is exactly why I just bought new clubs to replace my clones.

[BonoVox]

Mizuno seems to target players. Those clubs frankly, have more substance than sizzle. (tried and true design means less RD costs and can be supported by less sales) "they have a profitable niche"

Now if they were trying to dominate the game improvement market (the mostly buy a game crowd) then they HAVE to advertise relentlessly. Only way you can compete.