"you wont make it with a 4 iron."

[sean_miller]

You said "reasonable to guess", and that's all it is, a guess. And it's ignorant because you are claiming something without any proof. You even bring numbers into your statement above, saying 7/10 times an 8 handicapper would miss the green from 200. Pulling numbers out of your ass isn't a way to inspire confidence in your posts around here.

How often should an 8.0 handicapper hit an average sized green from 200 yards out? Isn't the oft quoted GIR standard from

150 yards? There a few single digit handicap regulars who claim to be relatively short hitters with a fantastic short game. I suspect that type of game makes getting on the green from 200 less than a 50:50 proposition.

[Meddle]

How often should an 8.0 handicapper hit an average sized green from 200 yards out? Isn't the oft quoted GIR standard from

There would be no way of knowing how often an 8 handicap should hit a green 200 yards away, not enough info to tell. But I do know some people who drive the ball no longer than 200 yards and are at least 8 handicaps, because their short games are so good.

[Shindig]

How often should an 8.0 handicapper hit an average sized green from 200 yards out? Isn't the oft quoted GIR standard from

(I'm not picking on you for this: I think both sides of this back and forth are focusing on the wrong thing)

I don't think it matters whether he hits the green or not, but whether he would be off by a huge amount on an average shot. If I (not an 8-handicapper) hit a 4-iron from 200 yards, and catch it as perfect as can be, hitting the best 4-iron I've hit so far, I'm still 35 or so yards short. That makes it the wrong club, if I want to be on the green, period. But if your good shots with a 4-iron are 200, and maybe thin comes down to 185, it's not as problematic. If the right club for that person, from that distance and lie, is a 3-wood, then it's a problem no matter how accurate the 4-iron shot.

[sean_miller]

(I'm not picking on you for this: I think both sides of this back and forth are focusing on the wrong thing)

It's good that you're not "picking on me" since your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

[Shindig]

It's good that you're not "picking on me" since your reply has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Looking back, I don't think I said what I intended. I think lots of people were focusing on whether he'd hit the green to mean a measure of whether or not it's the right club, and I was trying to say that it isn't the right thing to evaluate. Sorry for the confusion.

[damnitdave]

the opposite happened to me... was playing sat. here in chicago area and winds were 20-30 was using a 5 irons on a 155 yard approach... tried to keep it from getting above the tree line and hit it within 15 feet while other guys in my group tried to hit it hard sent it above the tree line and the ball was in the grasps of the winds... lol one guy was like i usually hit my 7 iron 160... not when the wind is blowing in your face at 20-25

[popeyegolfer]

You are an 8 handicapper, so 7 times out of 10 he would be right. This was one of the other 3.

Since most pros are in the mid to high 60% range for GIR I think 7/10 from 200 for any amateur would be well above average.

[sean_miller]

Since most pros are in the mid to high 60% range for GIR I think 7/10 from 200 for any amateur would be well above average.

You've read that the wrong way around (taken it out of context) he was suggesting 3 out of 10 would hit the green from 200.

[ET-Taylor]

I know a guy who was with a guy that drove a 400 yard flat hole with just a breeze behind and i bet he could do it again if he had the same driver it was the Cobra IRC or something like that

[misty_mountainhop]

bro, the question isnt if he is going to hit the green. read the title of the thread again. it says "you wont make it with a 4 iron". that means "you dont have enough club". no mention is made of weather he can accurately hit the green, its just about how much club he needs, and as for me,

Really? This is a 4-iron we're talking about. Not a 4h or similar. No 15 handicap I've ever seen or played with would "expect" to make good enough contact to hit a 4-iron 200 yards reliably. Once in a Blue Moon

maybe ....but absurdly unlikely. if they got the distance, the chance they'd actually be remotely near the target is infinitesimally small. I suggest your expectations are somewhat exaggerated.

Most guys I play with can hit it far past various major champions who still compete on the PGA Tour.

Nonsense. With all due respect, nonsense. You must play in rarefied company.

You said "reasonable to guess", and that's all it is, a guess. And it's ignorant because you are claiming something without any proof. You even bring numbers into your statement above, saying 7/10 times an 8 handicapper would miss the green from 200.

Laughable. The poster you're concerned about is just giving opinion based on the odds. Picking numbers without evidence won't inspire confidence in the poster's comments? But your wording above is fine and inspires a World of confidence? I'll let you know when I've stopped laughing...

I knew it was a mistake to read even part of this thread! A typical 8 handicap is not going to reliably hit a 4-iron 200 yards and onto the putting surface. I suppose the hole in question might be on a seriously elevated tee or with a big tail wind or somewhere near Denver but nothing has been said to suggest this. They may do it occasionally but most 8 handicap golfers are not going to have the potential for that length even if they could pure the ball that one time. Not saying no 8 handicapper can do it, but the odds are stacked and not in their favour. At 200 yards, if you assume a 30 yard wide target (generous), a straight shot and you're aiming at the centre, you have slightly over +/- 4° error. You have to pure it and stick within that narrow margin. So the poster above accused of pulling figures from their posterior is just playing the odds. Correctly. I'll quite happily give you a game....I'll even buy you a drink with the winnings.

[sean_miller]

A typical 8 handicap is not going to

No offense, but in spite of the thread title and the OP's anecdote, the poster in question (pick one) said nothing about 8 cappers using a 4-iron specifically. He implied reaching the green at all was a 30% proposition. I still agree, but I'm just sayin'.

[Shindig]

In response to a comment about people I play with regularly out-driving select active major champions:

Nonsense. With all due respect, nonsense. You must play in rarefied company.

The nice thing about having a straight par-5 with few fairway hazards is that our home club can do long drive measurements in various club events. There's always a few folks - many of whom are the same folks - who put their drive on this hole 275+ yards out -- and I'm sure the roll on our course is considerably less than on any TOUR course.

2010 driving distances of selected active players who have (1) won at least one major and (2) continue to compete on the PGA Tour. Place the stop at a place of your choosing. Justin Leonard - 270.7 Jim Furyk - 271.7 Zach Johnson - 278.4 David Duval - 278.8 Trevor Immelman - 278.9 Mark Calcavecchia - 280.4 Retief Goosen - 282.4

[Shanks A Million]

Really? This is a 4-iron we're talking about. Not a 4h or similar. No 15 handicap I've ever seen or played with would "expect" to make good enough contact to hit a 4-iron 200 yards reliably. Once in a Blue Moon

While I agree with what you say, my point is that it was the correct club to choose. If he has 200 yards, and his 4 iron is his 200 yard club, then that's what he hits, regardless of handicap. What would you have suggested, that he hit 2 wedges, or a 5 wood? Either way, not going to be as good of a play.

The problem we have is the guy telling him he won't make it, like he knows his club selection.

[ericstamper]

I will tell guys who dont know my home course to not hit driver off certain holes because of water hazards........is that ok to do?

[Shanks A Million]

The nice thing about having a straight par -5 with few fairway hazards is that our home club can do long drive measurements in various club events. There's always a few folks - many of whom are the same folks - who put their drive on this hole 275+ yards out -- and I'm sure the roll on our course is considerably less than on any TOUR course.

Haha, this is just rich. So, you're attributing single long drives to the

average driving distance of tour pros? This is one of the lamest arguments I've ever read, I'm sorry. This logic just doesn't work. Your buddies would be lucky to average 230 if their longest came to rest around 275. Justin Leonard hits 1 in 12 drives over 300 yards, and he's had several this year over 320. Do you think your friends could do that? I doubt it. These pros are measured by very accurate lasers, and under all conditions. You're talking about one hole on one course, and a long drive hole. This is apples to oranges. Any one of these tour pros mentioned could blow the ball by even the longest driver at your course. Goosen's longest drive this year was 395. Johnson's longest was 343. Calcavecchia had one 345. Immelman had one at 342. Duval's longest was 344, on flat fairway, at sea level . Of all the players on tour, the one who drives the ball less than 240 the most is Brad Faxon, and he hits just 16% of his drives shorter than 240 yards. That's it. The shortest player on tour still hits 5 of 6 drives more than 240 yards. How many do your friends fail hit over 240? I'd bet more than 1 in 6. Reality is hard to swallow, isn't it? The shortest hitters on tour regularly hit the ball over 300 yards, but they don't average anywhere near that. Average and max are totally different things. Learn it.

[hipcheck4u]

ok so this guy told me that i wouldnt make it to the green which was 200 yards away with a 4 iron. He had a rangefinder and said "you wont make it" ok so that got me boiling so i hit my shot and what happens lands right on the green. He said nothing after that. This was the type of guy that tells people how to hit shots when they cant. anyone ever play with one of these guys.

Someone told me I couldn't hit a green 180 yards away with a 7 iron.... I did. He left my group.

A year ago I was playing a tournament with my buddy. On a par 5, I sliced my second shot all the way over to the far side of the adjacent hole's tee box. I get to the ball, and have a strange stance due to the ball landing about 18 inches from the cart path curb (I didn't know that I could take relief from there). My GPS told me I had something like 160 yards to the center of the green, and there was a wall of tall oak trees between my ball and the green. I pull out my 6 iron. My partner asks what I'm hitting, then looks at the oaks and says, "you can't make it over those with your six". I shrugged and addressed the ball. I absolutely pured it, it soared beautifully over the oak trees, and landed on the green, some 12 feet from the pin. I looked at my friend and said, "Thank you for doubting me."

I think I screwed up and three putted the green, but I'll never forget that shot, and I don't let my buddy forget it either.

[mjtoal]

Most guys I play with can hit it far past various major champions who still compete on the PGA Tour.

Dream on, pal.

[trumpetgolf]

I'm definitely with shanks on this one. If you've got a club for a certain distance and you want to his it that far on the couse you pull that club. Is it going to work out perfectly everytime? Obviously not. However, as you get better it'll workout more often and you won't be second guessing yourself. You'll never get better until you make yourself make the shots. Don't play the shank play the pure.