Stack and Tilt IS TRADITIONAL

[westcyderydin]

haha i did word that kind funny didnt i

[Harmonious]

ive never met any golfer in my lifetime who is at least openly s and t.

Not that there's anything wrong with that

[walk18]

From my own experience the difference has been phenomenal with S&T.; I have 2 swing thoughts, weight forward and hands deep. From there, for me, the swing takes care of itself. I really think people should not get hung up on the name and at least look into it so they can make their own opinion. The book is absolutely worth reading with an open mind, and it could be a game changer for a lot of people.

[tm22721]

S&T; has worked for those who are seekers, who persevere. When you are going through hell, keep going.

I was stuck at double digits for a long time before entering the promised land.

[MMouse]

I've figured out today why so many people have an issue with Stack and Tilt.

I was watching Golf Channel today and the commercial for the DVD's came on.

It's all about the voice guy. The guy they had do the dialogue for the commercial is in too many other infomercials etc. That's where they lost people, too infomercially.

So now we know why.

[RIduffer]

I've figured out today why so many people have an issue with Stack and Tilt.

Amazing, no one has

ever pointed out before how corny that S&T; commercial is. Great insight. Other breaking news, Phil Mickelson's Secrets to the Short Game commercial is pretty lame.

[MMouse]

Ya, Phil gets a little excited at the start of it.

On a side note, that commercial is so corny my wife pokes fun at me.
After I get home from a round she'll ask " so, are you stacked?"

[iacas]

It's all about the voice guy. The guy they had do the dialogue for the commercial is in too many other infomercials etc. That's where they lost people, too infomercially.

The commercial stinks.

[colin007]

After I get home from a round she'll ask " so, are you stacked?"

HAHA!!! thats awesome...

[TempoIsKey]

I got my copy of "The Stack and Tilt Swing" yesterday in the mail and just let me say that 11.00 on ebay beats the hell out of 30 bucks in a store. I've only read the first two chapters so far and I've got to say that it's making pretty good sense so far. I think I'll try a little at the range this weekend.

[uttexas]

Stack and Tilt IS THE TRADITIONAL swing. It's MORE traditional than the "modern" golf swing.

Agree. So, if scientifically faulty, how did the "modern swing" gain so much popularity?

Was it Golf Digest and PGA professionals admiring Nicklaus' dramatic backswings? Nicklaus' amazing athleticism and ability to repeatedly get the club/shaft back on plane from his steep top position with separated elbows? Johnny Miller and Peter Kostis' weekly repetition of false information on television broadcasts? Blind pursuit of more power and distance? Modern equipment/balls/etc allowing for fundamentally poor swings to succeed? If an idea is fundamentally wrong, that theory/idea usually dies from poor results, etc, but the "modern" weight shift, lifting of the rear elbow and the top, etc have survived and flourished. Here's a good slo mo break down of Jack Nicklaus' swing from DTL and face on

[k14]

Well after reading this thread I decided to buy the book from amazon. Look forward to recieving it, will report back on how my draw is coming in a few weeks :)

[TempoIsKey]

OK, so I went to the range this morning and hit a small bucket. I hit a 6 iron the whole time and basically went to the Stack and Tilt book on page 29 and only tried step 1 which is to put your weight on the front foot. Well I'm pretty impressed. Out of 45 or so balls, 35 or so were solid 5 yard or so draws and probably 10 mishits due to my tempo getting too quick cause it is so damn hot and I guess I was hurrying. I never would have thought that merely moving your weight around like that could have such an impact. Looking forward to more practice.

[iacas]

Agree. So, if scientifically faulty, how did the "modern swing" gain so much popularity?

Well, let's examine that.

Was it Golf Digest and PGA professionals admiring Nicklaus' dramatic backswings?

A bit. Mike and Andy think the "swing" changed around the time of Nicklaus, but more so around the Leadbetter time with Nick Faldo.

Nicklaus' amazing athleticism and ability to repeatedly get the club/shaft back on plane from his steep top position with separated elbows?

Doesn't help. :)

Blind pursuit of more power and distance?

A bit. But S&T; has pieces that can increase distance.

Modern equipment/balls/etc allowing for fundamentally poor swings to succeed?

At the PGA Tour level? Nah. On the average golf course? Perhaps to some extent. That's a good observation.

If an idea is fundamentally wrong, that theory/idea usually dies from poor results, etc, but the "modern" weight shift, lifting of the rear elbow and the top, etc have survived and flourished.

I don't agree that if an idea is fundamentally wrong, it dies. Heck, the ball flight laws were PROVABLY wrong, and yet they were believed and are still believed by many.

Hands have gained acceptable depth. Look at how far in the left arm gets at later stages (the green lines). All good there. You can see Nicklaus' shoulders are turning on a decent angle too. Head has remained centered. BIG hip turn, straight left arm, and his right hip has turned in a nice circle and is above the other. If the knee hadn't kicked in he'd look awfully S&T; here - as it is, the knee isn't an issue, really. We do see the knee become an issue when people let it move their lower center somewhere, though - forwards or backwards. Nice hip slide. Upper center has remained relatively stable while the lower center has pushed well ahead - and the hips. Decent extension. He's not as far forward as we'd like but the left knee to the left ankle angle is backwards - a sign of a fader. It's more forward for someone who tends to hit a draw. So lots of the "traditional" principles. But that shouldn't surprise anyone, right?

[delav]

Great post Erik. I didn't know nicklaus' hand-to-club position on the takeaway was so deep. How did Tiger miss that one?

[iacas]

Great post Erik. I didn't know nicklaus' hand-to-club position on the takeaway was so deep. How did Tiger miss that one?

Nicklaus took his hands fairly deep, then lifted late as the part of his slight over-the-top move.

[saevel25]

Well i think majority of the people get stuck on the clubhead and not on what the hands are doing. Also his flying elbow at the top is a move that he used famously. So, there are alot of things he does that are individual of him, but his solid foundation in the golf swing is there.

Just picked up the book at the bookstore today, i like alot there.

One thing i am confused about is what you called spine extension, which seems prevalent in the finish. Would this feeling be similar to standing upright and then thrusting the hips a bit forward arching the back?

[iacas]

One thing i am confused about is what you called spine extension, which seems prevalent in the finish. Would this feeling be similar to standing upright and then thrusting the hips a bit forward arching the back?

Extending the back, I don't know if I'd call it "arching" the back. Look at Jason Zuback - it's a power move. Extension, flexion, and then back to extension again.