playing the ball 'up'

[KD Epic]

I just love the self-righteousness going on in this thread........if you aren't playing in a tournament or for money, where does ANYONE get off telling someone else how they should play their game?

I have to agree here. It's like a bunch of people ganging up on how I play pick-up basketball. There are lots of different ways. Call your own fouls, call other fouls, no fouls, no charges, no blocks, half-court, full-court, inbounds, out of bounds, etc etc etc... No one cares if it's not an officiated game or tournament.

No wonder people look at golf as being snobby.

[bplewis24]

I just love the self-righteousness going on in this thread........if you aren't playing in a tournament or for money, where does ANYONE get off telling someone else how they should play their game?

The OP asked the question...people are answering.

Brandon

[BallStriker]

The OP asked the question...people are answering.

There is a big difference between "this is how I play" and "this is how you and everyone else should play".........there are some great responses in this thread (i.e., this is how I do it and I think it makes me better in the end -- great answer (and true I believe)), and then there are some responses that are the reason for my post.

Maybe I came off a bit strong.......but really, isn't this game supposed to be about fun for 99% of us????

[James_Black]

There is a big difference between "this is how I play" and "this is how you and everyone else should play".........there are some great responses in this thread (i.e., this is how I do it and I think it makes me better in the end -- great answer (and true I believe)), and then there are some responses that are the reason for my post.

but do you want to play golf?

In golf you should be able to adapt to the different shots you have to hit. Not "tee it up on a nice piece of grass before every shot". If you hit it into the trees and can see your ball, why not play it? I find hitting weird shots fun.

[Fourputt]

There is a big difference between "this is how I play" and "this is how you and everyone else should play".........there are some great responses in this thread (i.e., this is how I do it and I think it makes me better in the end -- great answer (and true I believe)), and then there are some responses that are the reason for my post.

Fun is still relative. I would NOT find the game fun if I was deluding myself into think I was better than I am by playing as the OP indicated. For me, part of the fun is in being able to compare how I truly play to others who play the same game. The only way that can be done is if we play by the same rules, and to be certain of that we have to play by all of the rules, not just the ones which are convenient at the time. To all of those who posted that they only play by the rules which they feel are fair, or would be proper if they were on Tour, or only the rules that don't ruin their fun, where did you get those handicaps that you have in your profiles? And what would that number be if you took all of those penalty strokes that you actually incurred when you rolled the ball out of those tree roots, or dropped away from those rocks, or if you played the ball as it lies? I'm thinking we would have a lot more players with handicaps in the "average" range, or worse.

BallStriker.... maybe you don't find playing by the rules to be fun... but if that's so, how then did you get that 5 handicap? You must have played the game correctly to achieve a skill level I've only ever dreamed about. And I have to assume that you did have fun doing so, otherwise why would you keep at it? I simply can't fathom the personality who gets fun out of playing any game in a way other than by the rules that define it. Without the rules it's not even the same game.

[Harmonious]

but do you want to play golf?

It's more fun to try to make a shot from an impossible lie or situation than it is to hit from a regular lie. I still remember shots I hit from years ago that required some real skill or thinking, like curving a shot around and under a low hanging tree onto the green, or hitting the green from a deep, unrepaired divot.

Here's a good example: Do you think that 10 years from now anyone will remember Mickelson's shots from the middle of the fairway at Augusta, or the one off the pine straw out of the trees and onto the green? For those who don't want to have to make a tough shot, and will roll or foot wedge the ball: Enjoy the challenge that is golf. Those Scottish shepherds didn't invent the game to make it easy for us.

[BallStriker]

BallStriker.... maybe you don't find playing by the rules to be fun..

When teeing it up for a legit round (i.e., I am not out hitting two/three balls each tee and practicing different shots along the way), playing by the rules is the only way I play.

BUT, that fact does not give me the right to tell someone else how they should play their ball.....the bottom line is that not everyone is interested in keeping a handicap and/or playing for money.....if they want to fluff a bad lie so they can hit a good shot into the green and possibly make a birdie (and that makes them feel good), then so be it...I am certainly in no position to dictate what they want or can do to enjoy the game. Just my 2 cents.........

[Fourputt]

It's more fun to try to make a shot from an impossible lie or situation than it is to hit from a regular lie. I still remember shots I hit from years ago that required some real skill or thinking, like curving a shot around and under a low hanging tree onto the green, or hitting the green from a deep, unrepaired divot.

A man after my own heart. I love the challenges that the game presents.... and as my handicap is 10.7 strokes higher than yours, I probably face those challenges far more often than you do.

But those are the shots I'll always remember. I wouldn't miss them for the world, and I certainly wouldn't do anything to make them easier.

[JWL1957]

I've played many amateur tournaments in which some of the fairways with hards spots and burn outs that were marked "ground under repair" giving players a free drop. I have seen it in pro tournaments as well. So it's ok to do that only in tournaments..... and not amongst freinds out playing on a beer bet? That sounds like a score enhancing double standard to me.

Not looking for a argument. Im just throwing out there guys. I could care less if you bump the ball, or play it down and dirty. :)

[chef35ca]

I play regularly with a guy that will roll the ball in the rough. It doesn't bother me, as we're just playing to play, no money on the line or anything. However, we've talked numerous times about playing in two-man tournaments together, but I get concerned because I don't want to deal with the scenario where he rolls the ball and gets called on it.

However people want to play is fine with me. As long as they don't want to play me for money, all the power to them.

& really, if it's a health risk, like an older fellow moving the ball out of rough or out of a wrist tendon destroyer of a bunker lie, then by all means.

Amen brother (from a fellow Pacific Northwesterner).........can't post those scores for handicap anyway, so at least get it out of the half-plugged hole and the mud off of it....7 irons (sometimes 6 irons) are only going 150 yds in our sub-50 degree weather as it is....

I lose so many balls in the fall/winter that hit the fairway. It's really annoying having to call lost ball over & over because it's 2 inches underground.

[sean_miller]

I love the challenges that the game presents

Me too. It's not really a hero shot if it's off a fluffed lie, is it?!? ?

[mad max]

.... Also when there are badly damaged areas on the course I have seen them marked and when their ball ends up in this spot they get a free drop. I have seen this in some tournaments in the middle of fairways. Obviously this does not happen often because a lot of time and money is put into making the course nice for them. I don't see how it is any different when someone on this forum hits a perfect drive into a badly damaged fairway and you get mad at them for putting it in a nice spot in the fairway. The only difference is there isn't someone going out and specifically marking the spot, but it is essentially the same. Just my opinion because the pro's don't always play the ball down all the time. The pro's are my diva's than anybody here. They are always asking for rulings to try and improve their lies when they are in tough spots.

I agree 100%, I see no problem with conferring with your playing partners/fellow competitors and declaring an area ground under repair if it is clear that the area in question is not in the condition it was intended to be. Many courses I play you never see an area marked ground under repair, while that might not be an issue for some of you that play better maintained courses for some of us it almost necessary. I don't want to hit from a tire track in the middle of the fairway because that is not how the course was designed to be played. If my ball goes into a pile of downed branches that have just been cut down but haven't been cleared away yet I will just drop a ball. When you play lower end muni's especially in winter you have to respect the spirit of the rules if the course does not have the manpower to put the course in acceptable playing conditions. I have yet to see a pro hit out of a tire track in the fairway.

[popeyegolfer]

I agree 100%, I see no problem with conferring with your playing partners/fellow competitors and declaring an area ground under repair if it is clear that the area in question is not in the condition it was intended to be. Many courses I play you never see an area marked ground under repair, while that might not be an issue for some of you that play better maintained courses for some of us it almost necessary. I don't want to hit from a tire track in the middle of the fairway because that is not how the course was designed to be played. If my ball goes into a pile of downed branches that have just been cut down but haven't been cleared away yet I will just drop a ball. When you play lower end muni's especially in winter you have to respect the spirit of the rules if the course does not have the manpower to put the course in acceptable playing conditions. I have yet to see a pro hit out of a tire track in the fairway.

Most of the courses that are cheaper put any money they do have into the greens. So at least you will have a decent putting surface. But most of the cheaper courses put little to no money into the fairways and anything off the fairway. I think it is worse now because courses are just trying to stay alive.

[zeg]

If my ball goes into a pile of downed branches that have just been cut down but haven't been cleared away yet I will just drop a ball.

From the definition of "ground under repair": Ground under repair includes material piled for removal and a hole made by a greenkeeper, even if not so marked. You are actually entitled to drop a ball in that case, and there's a well-defined procedure within the rules for it.

My feeling is that if you're going to play the game, play by the rules. I don't actually care what YOU do, but I don't really understand the logic behind breaking the rules because they're inconvenient. I never play competitively (except with myself), but don't want to get into the habit of cutting corners. Situations where I'm tempted to are very rare, and I don't play a fancy course by any means. When I get rotten luck in the fairway, well, then I'll take a one-stroke penalty to buy a drop from the unplayable lie. There's no doubt that I've saved more strokes getting lucky bounces out of trees than i've paid in unplayable penalties due to bad luck in the fairway.

[Shorty]

I agree 100%, I see no problem with conferring with your playing partners/fellow competitors and declaring an area ground under repair .......

Well there is a problem. It is against the rules. You would all be disqualified if it was competition play. If it isn't, do what you like, but don't say you scored x because you didn't.

As for tire tracks, you are allowed to get free relief from them.

[zeg]

As for tire tracks, you are allowed to get free relief from them.

I don't think this is true unless the "committee" has declared it as ground under repair. The closest I can find in the Decisions:

Q. Is a rut made by a tractor considered a hole made by a greenkeeper and thus ground under repair? If not, should the Committee declare such a rut to be ground under repair? A. Such a rut is not a hole made by a greenkeeper. The Committee would be justified in declaring a deep rut to be ground under repair, but not a shallow indentation made by greenkeeping equipment.

[pbillaa]

I must say that I think most people are missing the point here. If a guy wants to improve his lie and post his score, than he is simply a reverse sandbagger. I will always happily play against this player in any format. Do whatever you want, and when the money is on the line,,,,,,,, this guy will suffer.

[sean_miller]

I must say that I think most people are missing the point here. If a guy wants to improve his lie and post his score, than he is simply a reverse sandbagger. I will always happily play against this player in any format. Do whatever you want, and when the money is on the line,,,,,,,, this guy will suffer.

Because he'll stop doing it when money is on the line, why?