playing the ball 'up'

[martytilma]

I've seen divots on some muni's and public courses that look like they were made with farm machinery.

Funny!

Well actually, I have topped it out of a bad lie, which then left it in a better lie... does that count?

More funny!!

I find hitting weird shots fun.

Me too, unless I end up worse than I started;)

Because he'll stop doing it when money is on the line, why?

He might not stop, but he isn't going to beat me when I'm calling him out on it!!!

[Fourputt]

Because he'll stop doing it when money is on the line, why?

Because I'll call him on it.... every time he does it. If he is dumb enough to think that this is allowed in a competition then he definitely needs some educating. I'd warn him once, then either he plays by the real Rules of Golf or all bets are cancelled. If it's a competition and he continues to do it in spite of my counseling, then the committee will hear about it.... guaranteed.

[jetsknicks1]

I don't think this is true unless the "committee" has declared it as ground under repair. The closest I can find in the Decisions:

But, wouldn't that be considered a manmade impediment and therefore allow for a free drop?

[jetsknicks1]

Because he'll stop doing it when money is on the line, why?

If there's money on the line you would need to make sure the other player understood from the begining that improving the lie is not allowed and you have to be prepared to call him on it if it happens. My buddies & I generally play courses that are not quite up to par so we allow each other to roll the ball in the fairway up to 6" in any direction except closer to the hole. If we're playing for money though, it's agreed that you play the ball where it lies no matter what the fairway looks like.

[MMouse]

I have to agree with playing the rules, in a tournament. If it's lift clean and place go for it, everyone else will be.

Having said that, in your casual rounds why wouldn't you hit it where it lies? It's great practice. Your ball isn't always in an ideal lie like it is on the driving range so get used to playing shots that are from less than perfect lies. It'll help you adapt to the game .

[SpoiledRotten]

Why not? If a PGA player happens to land his ball in a divot, he will have to play out of it. There are lots of advantages the PGA players got over us,

Which is why if you are not playing on a course that has been manicured as well as the course before a PGA tournament, why would you not move your ball over or back "slightly" to a spot of grass? I know that the club where my membership is, does not do much to fluff the course, so if I hit down a couple of the fairways that is a little less than fluff, I'll move my ball to keep from beating up my clubs. Now, if I'm fixing to make 3 mil on a tour, I'll leave the ball where it lies. I'll just replace my beat up club after the round with that huge paycheck I just made. Nothing wrong with taking out my

foot wedge if my ball is sitting on a tree root or an spot of rocks. I wouldn't even beat up my scrap iron on that.

[sean_miller]

Which is why if you are not playing on a course that has been manicured as well as the course before a PGA tournament, why would you not move your ball over or back "slightly" to a spot of grass? I know that the club where my membership is, does not do much to fluff the course, so if I hit down a couple of the fairways that is a little less than fluff, I'll move my ball to keep from beating up my clubs. Now, if I'm fixing to make 3 mil on a tour, I'll leave the ball where it lies. I'll just replace my beat up club after the round with that huge paycheck I just made. Nothing wrong with taking out my

That's what an unplayable lie is meant for. You could tell your playing partners you're taking one, then drop accordingly, but different people choose to approach this hobby (it's essentially a hobby for most of us) in different ways. Personally, I'd rather take a 7 from a garbage lie (that's not clearly GIR, casual water, or an obstruction according to the rules) than bump it over somewhere better, because I believe in karma. I play the ball down and coincidentally I don't tend to get very many "unlucky" bounces.

[James_Black]

Nothing wrong with taking out my foot wedge if my ball is sitting on a tree root or an spot of rocks. I wouldn't even beat up my scrap iron on that.

How did you get next to the tree root?

How did you get next to the spot of rocks? If you mess up, take it like a man and call an unplayable. Don't blame the course if you hit it into the trees, your not meant to be in there.

[Fourputt]

How did you get next to the tree root?

You are talking to a stone wall James.

Some people will never get that the game of golf was never intended to meet everyone's definition of "fair". They have this misconception that the game is supposed to be fair and equal to all, but without any way of defining "fair" or "equal". They see perfectly manicured courses on TV and think that they are divinely entitled to some special dispensation because the course they play has imperfections. You will never convince them otherwise. To them the prime tenets of playing your ball as it lies and playing the course as you find it are just so much hot air which only applies to such "purists" as we are. There is no comprehension that golf, like any game, is defined by its rules, and if you don't play by those rules then you aren't playing the same game. They think that most players play like they do so whatever they do is ok, yet from what I see, a vast majority of the players I know play the game like I do, including some very high handicappers (30+). Go figure...

[Williamevanl]

LOL, I love all of this... "I break the rules, So what!"

I always hit out of divots, I have a 3 iron in my bag whose only job is to suffer the damage from terrible lies, I'll full swing it into a tree stump if I have too. I recently hit my career shot out of a creek filled with rocks with a hooded sand wedge from 120 yards with the ball half submerged in the water while playing by myself!

I play with a high-school kid who practices nearly everyday but he never takes golf serious when we are actually on the course. He will take mulligans, gimmes, moves the ball and does not count missed two footers etc. He started playing tournament golf this year and I am always telling him you aren't going to be able to do that sort of a thing in a tournament so you should really practice accordingly. He had his first tournament yesterday and shot a 98.

[James_Black]

Very true Fourputt.

I guess most of those people haven't played links golf, you can't "play the ball up" in knee high rough.

[Fourputt]

Very true Fourputt.

It will probably never happen, but I would love to play a round with you some day. I think we could have a very pleasant outing.

[SpoiledRotten]

You are talking to a stone wall James.

I was going to see how long I could hold back the comments, but there are a few on every forum that think they are the gate keeper to the rules and regulations of that subject matter of the forum. I guess you are the one here for the most part.

You can check your arrogance at the door, Rick. I play on a course where the emphasis in the phrase "country club" is placed on the word "country". It's no where close to well kept, but it's a place where I can pay a small amount per month and play all I want. I just bought a new set of Callaways and I'm not going to beat them up on some of the bare gravel spots on that course. This action is not the rule. It's an exception, but then, reading most of your later post since I've been here, you tend to pick the crap out of people's post to try to make someone believe that you are the very one that wrote the rules to the game, and if everyone doesn't go strictly by those rules, they are not a "real golfer". That's BS! I don't even recall ever calling myself a "golfer". I believe the only ones that can call themselves a true golfer are the ones that are doing it as a profession. How much did you make last year being a golfer? I will say that I very much enjoy the game. I play the game only for recreation. When I quit my day job and start making my income playing golf, and have millions of people watching every move made, then I'll be sure that I go strictly by the rules set forth in order to keep from being humiliated in the media. As of yet, I've not seen any television cameras around my tee boxes. I'm a fair guy and I like the challenges that golf brings, but as long as I'm paying for my own equipment, I'll choose whether or not I play from a rock garden or a spot of grass. Now, if you'd like to send me some of your clubs, I'll be glad to go by the rules and if I happen to wrap one around a tree, then so be it. I'm not one of those that plays 6 days a week and feels the need to carry a handbook in my back pocket to read a rule about every situation that comes my way, so when I get out on the course on the weekend, I'm there to relax and enjoy my time out, not to worry about what Rick's going to post about a comment I made even after I've shown that I'm big enough to be open and honest about how I place the ball in a situation that could damage my equipment. I recently played at a very nice course, Eagle's Landing, in Sevierville, TN. I didn't have to worry about rocks, so my ball was played from where it stopped, by the rules that even you would be satisfied with. So lighten up a little. I'm not impressed.

[James_Black]

bare gravel?
where are you going to find bare gravel?

What kind of courses do you have in america?
The muni that I sometimes play at costs 10 euro a round.
The greens and bunker's aren't great but there's no patches of "gravel" on the fairways.

I understand that it's a hobby, some people take it more seriously than others.
But if I'm going to spend a few hours out on the course and I shoot a good round I don't want to know I got it by cheating.

[zeg]

But, wouldn't that be considered a manmade impediment and therefore allow for a free drop?

No such rule exists. A manmade object is an obstruction, but there's no such thing as a manmade impediment (a loose impediment is a natural object only). However, a rut or tire track is not an object, it's a condition of the course. That's why it'd have to be ground under repair. It doesn't meet the definition for an abnormal ground condition, which is the nearest other rule you could try to invoke, but that rule is quite specific. Holes made by burrowing animals qualify, but neither a tractor nor its human driver count. If a mole were driving the tractor, you should contact the USGA for clarification (because that'd be the most awesome decision ever).

For an on-topic bit, people should not take offense or find arrogance in those who argue strenuously for the rules. If you read carefully, there's no claim that everyone on the course must play the full rules, merely that if you want to play Golf with a capital G, you need to. That is not arrogance, it's simply true. If you are maintaining a handicap and intend to use it in competition, then you MUST play by those rules unless your club is not part of the USGA. In this case, it's not a matter of some guy on the Internet (probably Fourputt) telling you what to do, it's part of the rules of the competition that you signed on to when you joined the club---and by extension it's part of the next official handicapped competition you enter since it affects your outcome there. So the comparison that inevitably comes along about not playing NBA rules for your pick-up game is inappropriate. It's more like cheating in a league game in these cases. If you're not playing a competition, of course no one cares what you do. We might have opinions about whether we'd enjoy the game the same way you do, but that's what the Forum is for. Try not to take it personally, even if things get heated.

[SpoiledRotten]

bare gravel?

What is the difference in moving your ball over to a place that won't cause damage to your club and surpassing the posted speed limit on your local highways? You can call them both "cheating" only one probably won't be as likely to get someone killed. I guess you'll say that you are the perfect model of the automobile operator, too. Some of you guys just try to take the fun out of a game by your strict policies (at least on the WWW). Glad I don't have to play with some of you. Can't imagine stopping at every shot to review to see if there were any rules broken up to that point.

You call it cheating by moving the ball a few inches to get it on some grass. I call it common sense and pride and preservation of my equipment. Cheating is a pretty strong word for someone out for a little recreation and relaxation. Again, I don't play for money and the ones I play with don't call it cheating either. I just wonder how many of your guys are as honest and hard nosed as you try to be here. Some of you might even do things that I would call cheating, but we'll just never know.

[James_Black]

what does speeding have to do with improving your lie?

it's not that hard to play your ball where it lies, why are you so against playing by the rules?

[Fourputt]

I was going to see how long I could hold back the comments, but there are a few on every forum that think they are the gate keeper to the rules and regulations of that subject matter of the forum. I guess you are the one here for the most part.

Just FYI, I play 95% of my golf on a public muni (I also work there part time). I also play on my father-in-law's 9 hole course out in the northeastern Colorado high plains, carved out of cattle pasture because it's too rocky to farm (there are places where you'd have to drop 50 yards back to get out of the rocks

). I buy my own clubs, I'm a retired blue collar machinist... no rich guy. I still play the game the same way no matter where I am. I've played by the rules for 25 years, whether casual or tournament (before that I don't think I even realized that there were formal rules). IF I choose not to risk damage to self or gear, then I still do so by the rules of golf... Rule 28 - Ball Unplayable. This is how I choose to play, and how virtually all of the players I know choose to play. You don't and that's your decision. I really don't care as we will likely never be competing on the same course anyway. Just one question though.... what then is your real handicap????