Gulf oil gusher

[Cussin hacker]

I don't believe it's the govt's job to stop the leak either, but it's not their job to direct the paths of hurricanes.

Boycott the hell out of them after they pay for the mess they made!!!

[KD Epic]

Did you also notice how much quicker the Obama administration reacted to the spill than the Bush administration did to Katrina?

That's because the oil spill is a FEDERAL problem. Hurricanes have several more people before it even gets to the national government, and then people before that before it gets to the president. Bush could have reacted better he even said so, but the fact is there were several people before Bush that also failed miserably and while he did himself ask to shoulder all of the blame, there were several more sad sad beurocrats that dropped the ball first.

Also Obama could have had ships from the Dutch over here TWO DAYS after the oil spill but he declined. Dutch Offer Aid - Obama Declines. I don't pretend to know the inner-workings of government but why in the hell would you turn down good help with a problem that is so much bigger than you are? And someone sarcastically said "And the government caused the oil spill" -- No the government didn't but seeing as they'll be the ones collecting the fines I'd say they have a pretty good reason to be held accountable for doing something about it... That'd be like telling your city officials they don't have to prosecute well because "they aren't the ones that raped, killed, stole, etc." ... They collect the taxes for it, just like our Federal Government will collect the fines and OUR taxes as well as coastal STATES' taxes... I didn't even get off of the first page of this thread.

[KD Epic]

Shindig...without a doubt BP is responsible for the spill. But the Gov't has a responsibility to make sure BP does what they should be doing. From what I can see we have allowed BP to lie about this mess from day one. Also Obama could do two things to help with the clean up. #1 wave the law that doesn't allow foreign ships in our waters. Many country's have volunteered help but are not allowed into our waters to help. #2 There are 2000 skimmers stationed around the US, only 500 are deployed in the gulf. Why because of another law that says you have to have X amount of skimmers located throughout our waters. That's another law Obama could wave but hasn't. I'm not a Rep or Dem, but do think out Gov't is way to bogged down with red tape and BS to get the big jobs done in a timely manner when it counts. Bush failed with Katrina and Obama is failing with the oil spill.

Good stuff, didn't know this -- Also wish he would declare a state of disaster which would allow him to temporarily waive these laws to get things taken care of. Also I like your points but please don't blame Bush for Katrina, and please don't blame Obama for the oil spill. There are many more people than the president that are supposed to take care of things, I understand their job as the president is to get all of the criticism and (well, at least in Obama's case) all of the praise -- but that's just silly let's be reasonable and realize that with checks and balances comes distributed responsibility.

I can't beleive I just defended Obama, a guy who, when he doesn't succeed as promised, tells us how worse things could have been... (Guess I couldn't be completely good to the guy so had to throw that unneccessary stab at the guy =])

[senorchipotle]

Did you also notice how much quicker the Obama administration reacted to the spill than the Bush administration did to Katrina?

um, what? first of all, as i recall, it took W a matter of hours to publicly address the situation. Obama didn't say a word about the oil spill until 13 days later. not one word. and george bush actually did something about it, not just bark orders and threats.

[James_Black]

um, what? first of all, as i recall, it took W a matter of hours to publicly address the situation. Obama didn't say a word about the oil spill until 13 days later. not one word. and george bush actually did something about it, not just bark orders and threats.

They didn't know the severity of the spill until that stage.

And it's hard to fix an oil spill miles under the ocean with no contingency plan to fix this, at least they could deal with katrina.

[Cussin hacker]

Good stuff, didn't know this -- Also wish he would declare a state of disaster which would allow him to temporarily waive these laws to get things taken care of. Also I like your points but please don't blame Bush for Katrina, and please don't blame Obama for the oil spill. There are many more people than the president that are supposed to take care of things, I understand their job as the president is to get all of the criticism and (well, at least in Obama's case) all of the praise -- but that's just silly let's be reasonable and realize that with checks and balances comes distributed responsibility.

I am in no way blaming Bush or Obama for these issue's. The buck stops with them tho. They have the power to get things done if they have the guts to do it. If you watch as much news on this as I have you would realize how much more the Gov't in general could do to help speed up cleanup efforts. But because of a lack of true leadership and bureaucrat's BS things are moving along much slower that they should. Watch Andersen Cooper 360 on CNN. He has local officials on every nite that talk about the BS they are going thru with BP and the Fed Gov't. It's all a head scratcher for sure.

[jamo]

Shindig...without a doubt BP is responsible for the spill. But the Gov't has a responsibility to make sure BP does what they should be doing. From what I can see we have allowed BP to lie about this mess from day one. Also Obama could do two things to help with the clean up. #1 wave the law that doesn't allow foreign ships in our waters. Many country's have volunteered help but are not allowed into our waters to help. #2 There are 2000 skimmers stationed around the US, only 500 are deployed in the gulf. Why because of another law that says you have to have X amount of skimmers located throughout our waters. That's another law Obama could wave but hasn't. I'm not a Rep or Dem, but do think out Gov't is way to bogged down with red tape and BS to get the big jobs done in a timely manner when it counts. Bush failed with Katrina and Obama is failing with the oil spill.

One of the laws that is under contention is the Jones Act, or the Merchant Maritime Act of 1920, which basically says that for a ship to travel between 2 US ports, it must be a US ship. That makes it hard for foreign ships to just stay in the gulf because more than likely when they would have to dock they would go to US ports, and they can't keep going back to US ports because of the law.

[KD Epic]

They didn't know the severity of the spill until that stage.

It's hard to stop an entire hurricane from hitting. Also quit making excuses - The oil spill is a FEDERAL problem. Katrina was a local, state, then federal problem. There were several agencies WITH contingency plans that dropped the ball before it made it to Bush. He did his very best, and he admitted his best fell short. Is Obama doing his best? There are laws that allow him to suspend laws during times of crisis. Even Republicans wouldn't blame him for doing so in order to aid our coastline.

And don't say they didn't know the severity when everyone knew it had the POTENTIAL to be the worst in history right off the bat, why do you think the Dutch only took 2 days to offer aid? If you tell me "Hey you have a lesion on your skin, could be nothing, but it could also kill you" I'm going to address it then and now. We knew the potential disaster of this spill and it still took him 13 days. You won't hear him shoulder blame, unless it's to take a stab at someone in doing so. Don't make excuses for him though, he'll do that for himself. "Sure unemployment is rising, but it could be worse." .............

[Cornbread]

But don't you find it odd that for the first travel season in many years, Gas actually went down in price!
Coincidence? I think not. They sinply couldn't withstand any more Public Relations Problems right now.

[NormH3]

BP brands to boycott include Castrol, Arco, Aral, am/pm, Amoco, Wild Bean Cafe

Boycotting BP products will do nothing except put your neighbors out of work.

[NormH3]

They didn't know the severity of the spill until that stage.

..and unfortunately the Mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Lousiana didnt do their jobs either. Funny how you don't hear much about that.

[Cussin hacker]

Boycotting BP products will do nothing except put your neighbors out of work.

This Boycotting talk at this time has no reason in good thought. BP needs to make money for now and many years to help pay for this mess. And yes it would put many innocent folks out of a job if there were a mass boycott. This problem is going to be around for years and as much as I hate it BP needs to say viable to cover the cost for many years to come. That in the end would be the best outcome for the Gulf region. If BP doesn't pay....TAX PAYERS WILL!!!

[KD Epic]

..and unfortunately the Mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Lousiana didnt do their jobs either. Funny how you don't hear much about that.

Yup that's what I'm saying - They went straight to Bush. Unfortunately Obama doesn't have that luxury with the oil spill since it's a federal problem. So you see how the government has handled this, and other things, and you still want them running healthcare? I love how closed minded people are to their president's ideas. I say "their" because the fact they voted him in makes them refuse to say "I was wrong." Granted, had McCain won I'd probably be saying "I was wrong" but at least we wouldn't be in huge deficits, having our troops slaughtered (but hey, they get a medal of courageous restraint afterwards), having the jobless rate skyrocket along with taxes, etc etc etc etc etc... The list goes on. McCain also wouldn't have won on the promise things would be different, so when things stayed the exact same (as they have) I wouldn't have been dissappointed or making excuses why there has been change (be it for the better or, in this case, for the worse)

But hey, I gotta get back to golf this is killing me! Obama HAS golfed more in his (almost) two years than President GW Bush did in his two TERMS.

[Shanks A Million]

Wow, it's obvious no one here has ever worked in politics. I worked for the DNC for a long time, and my uncle is a governor. I can tell you, he'd love to just step in and fix problems, but it's not that simple. The president doesn't have as much power as you all assume he does. He can't just say, "fix it!" and watch as it's done.

Just to put it in perspective, Katrina caused a confirmed 1,836 deaths, the oil spill has so far caused 13 deaths. There is somewhat of a difference. Bush was on vacation, and did not return until two days after the storm had hit. That's what upsets people. Obama took far too long to respond to the problem, as many (myself included) have pointed out. The small difference comes in the fact that NOAA and FEMA are government agencies, and we also have a national guard and police and fire departments in New Orleans, but the spill was on the bottom of the ocean, and outside of the United States in international waters. The coast gaurd showed up within hours, and began putting out fires. There wasn't much else to be done at that point. The rig belongs to BP, not the U.S. There were a lot of people who screwed up in all counts, but people tend to blame the ones they are politically biased against.

But hey, I gotta get back to golf this is killing me! Obama HAS golfed more in his (almost) two years than President GW Bush did in his two TERMS.

Don't know where you got that info, but here's the vacation totals of the last 6 presidents in their first year in office:

Bush 2 - 69 days Reagan - 42 days Bush 1 - 40 days Obama - 26 days Clinton - 21 days Carter - 19 days http://www.factcheck.org/2010/01/pre...vacation-days/

[jamo]

in huge deficits

If you don't think McCain would have signed the stimulus bill you have been drinking the Kool Aid.

having our troops slaughtered (but hey, they get a medal of courageous restraint afterwards)

Yup, Obama started this war. Oh wait... At least he has presented a plan for our retreat. That McCain, so anti-war.

having the jobless rate skyrocket along with

Obama was in office in September 2008, right? (The answer is actually no....)

taxes

They actually polled Tea Party members on this, and only 2% got it right. Taxes went down in 2009.

Don't know where you got that info, but here's the vacation totals of the last 6 presidents in their first year in office:

There was actually a stat, though I don't remember where I got it (AP Gov class, but I forget the name of the video. West Wing possibly, or something like that) that said the in the first summer of one of his two terms George W Bush actually spent more time in Texas on vacation that he did in Washington.

[KD Epic]

If you don't think McCain would have signed the stimulus bill you have been drinking the Kool Aid.

Obama didn't start the war, Al Queda did. Obama IS crippling our troops with his RIDICULOUS rules of engagement - You sort of missed the point there, didn't you?

Bush didn't cause the housing market to crash, that would have been Clinton and Greenspan (see, NINJA loans) The jobless rate is climbing because the stimulus isn't working like Obama promised it would - Oh wait, what was his defense? "It could be 14, 15 percent! It could be worse!" Taxes went down in 2009 because the BUSH TAX CUTS hadn't expired yet. Tea Party members are too stupid to realize that past presidents can cause present crises / surpluses and also cause future benefits / problems. Why did taxes go down in 2009? Bush. Why are they slated to go up in 2010? Obama. Have fun paying tax on the health benefits your company pays for. It's so sad how many days Bush took on vacation his first year in office - That, however, doesn't excuse the amount of time Obama spends NOT being president. He's just as bad - All the Wizards games, all of the golf excursions, basketball brackets. Just because Bush did poorly in office (more poor, at times) doesn't excuse Obama. This is a guy who campaigned on less of more of the same. He's not delivered. If you find yourself defending Obama with "Bush did [blank]" you're probably not off to a great start.

[Shanks A Million]

Bush didn't cause the housing market to crash, that would have been Clinton and Greenspan (see, NINJA loans) The jobless rate is climbing because the stimulus isn't working like Obama promised it would - Oh wait, what was his defense? "It could be 14, 15 percent! It could be worse!"

So, your argument is that everything is magically (insert random name as long as it has a "D" next to it)'s fault, and find a rationale to excuse names with an "R" next to them. Sounds about right. You've presented no hard data, no facts, no numbers, no nothing. If this were a court case, it would be dismissed for lack of evidence.

The fact of the matter is, if McCain were in office right now, you'd be claiming things were going great, saying his reaction to the oil spill was perfect, etc, etc. The fact of the matter is, facts are facts, and nothing can change that. Nixon and Eisenhower maintained a strong economic policy, as did Clinton and Johnson. Regardless of what letter is next to the name, only facts matter. Jamo posted a graph with real, factual data, and I posted actual numbers with a reference to back up our claims. One of the only good arguments I've ever heard against universal suffrage democracy is that any system that gives the village idiot the same amount of say as Einstein is a flawed system. This is one of those rare cases where I can agree with that. Democracy relies on voter education, which is why the U.S. is so clogged with utterly worthless idiots for politicians.

[lsuwjk]

Terrible terrible