Cheaters Cheaters Cheaters..

[zeg]

I dont think thats cheating. I dont think its a stroke. I think you have to take the club back to actually have a stroke added. But Im sure way more people than me can answer that and may have since I didnt read all the pages

Touching the ball is not a penalty stroke, moving it is. Also, if it "oscillates" at address due to the touch, as long as it returns to its original position, that's not a penalty either as this is not considered "moving" the ball (decision 18/2).

[PooN]

Also a pet peeve as stated in the thread bearing that name...

when a player 'takes' his 3-5 foot putt, or hits these shorter putts in such a way that it shows that he is not serious about the putt, where even if he misses said putt the stroke for the extra putt that it would take to actually put the ball in the hole never sees the scorecard.


Examples (again, even if the player misses these shots, the extra stroke it would take to actually get the ball down the hole won't see the card):
The Flamingo - one footed off balance shot.
The Back Scoop - overshoot the hole, no problem, just walk up to the hole and scoop it back in from 3 feet.
The Backwards Putter - hit the ball with the back/side of the putter because everyone knows the player would make this putt 100 times in a row... except this time, but since the player hit it with the back of the club that miss doesn't really count as a miss.
The One Hander - a putt missed while only using one hand surely doesn't count as 2 strokes if it was only 3 feet away, right?

[Valleygolfer]

I have always played it where it lies but my father who played on a course that was like cement in the summer, he improved his lie on about every shot stating everyone on that course plays that way. Since it was my dad I was like whatever but I would have liked to see his real score. He has since changed courses and I don't know if he still "fluffs" it up.

I just don't understand how someone who consistently cheats for years suddenly stops and plays by the rules.

[laconic517]

R&A; has rules that make a little more sense and dont seem as stiff (like replacing a ball marked on the green whether someone else marked it for you or not) but then again, they have to deal with plugged balls in the rough not getting relief so its a trade off :)

[laconic517]

A person can't declare a ball lost.

I thought that if someone marked your ball for you on the green, they had to replace it. If you replaced it was a penalty. Is this not the case? 20-3 seems to say that whoever marked it has to replace it.

[zeg]

I thought that if someone marked your ball for you on the green, they had to replace it. If you replaced it was a penalty. Is this not the case? 20-3 seems to say that whoever marked it has to replace it.

That's what I thought, but on reflection and re-reading, I don't think so. It says "If a ball is to be replaced, the player, his partner or the person who lifted or moved it must place it on the spot from which it was lifted or moved." Thus, the player or his partner may always replace it. If someone other than the player or his partner lifted it, then (and only then) someone else can replace it.

[Fourputt]

R&A; has rules that make a little more sense and dont seem as stiff (like replacing a ball marked on the green whether someone else marked it for you or not) but then again, they have to deal with plugged balls in the rough not getting relief so its a trade off :)

The R&A; plays by the same exact rule book as the USGA. I don't know where you got that idea. They have a joint rules conference to decide on any changes and both ruling bodies agree before any changes are made. I believe that the rules have been universal since at least 1984. In fact they first really got together to start ironing out their differences back in the 1950's.

[laconic517]

The R&A; plays by the same exact rule book as the USGA. I don't know where you got that idea. They have a joint rules conference to decide on any changes and both ruling bodies agree before any changes are made. I believe that the rules have been universal since at least 1984. In fact they first really got together to start ironing out their differences back in the 1950's.

Are you sure? Im fairly certain that you ALWAYS(even with the closely mown BS) get relief from a plugged ball outside of a hazard under USGA rules but Ive come to understand that outside of "closely mown areas" under the R&A; you dont. The reason for me under the USGA assumption is that anytime a ball plugs outside of a hazard it would be deemed abnormal ground conditions anyway so youd get a free drop.

[zeg]

Are you sure? Im fairly certain that you ALWAYS(even with the closely mown BS) get relief from a plugged ball outside of a hazard under USGA rules but Ive come to understand that outside of "closely mown areas" under the R&A; you dont.

No, under USGA it's only closely-mown unless declared otherwise by the committee.

[steelernation]

Ive always asked to mark someone elses ball in a 4some. If they are pitching from the woods and land pin side and the other 3 are on and his ball is now in the path of 2 other balls maybe 3. Ill ask first, but in recreational golf I dont see how a golfer should take it to heart.

[anthony]

Cheating, and the level in which it infuriates me, depends on who I'm playing with. Anytime money is involved, even if it's a few bucks, I'm serious about cheating. If I'm playing with friends who only get out every once in a while, I could care less. I'll usually ask them if they want to know their real score or the score they told me at the end of the round (jokingly of course). With people like that it doesn't matter. However, if someone tries to tell me they shoot mid 80's and are padding their score every hole, I'll call them out. I understand no one wants to shoot in the 100's, but don't tell me you got a 5 when you got a 7.

I had this happen recently and it upset me that I let it get to me. At the turn we tallied our scores at the turn, a guy I never played with was giving fake scores and was 1 shot up on me. I asked how many mulligans he took per hole? He acted a little offended so I dropped it as I wanted to enjoy the round. I think I got through a little because he recorded a little more honestly on the back 9 and shot a more believable 52 (as opposed to the 43 on the front). I understand why people cheat, but it's only going to hurt you or make you look like an idiot in the long run. Especially when your mouthing off how you shot a 79 last week at so and so course and your swing looks like a train wreck. My handicap is a 20. I shoot low 90's, high 80's and occasionally high 90's . When I play, that's usually what I shoot. I used to shoot 105-115 a round and have shot higher. If I got a 10, I took it. People would almost feel sorry for me and ask "a 10?" in a low voice. Yeah a 10! Who gives a shit!? I didn't then and don't know. That just gave me more inspiration to get better. Which I have. Next goal is a 15 handicap and if I keep it up, I'll be there in no time.

I'm lucky to play with a group that are all honest and play by the rules (I think). We bet a little on the round, so everyone keeps an eye on everyone else (in a friendly way of course).

[mdbuschsr]

I don't play in tournaments often, and I NEVER play for money, so I don't really pay much attention to others scores unless they make it obvious that they are shaving strokes. I prefer to "lead" by example. I played with my dad last weekend. On one hole I hit my tee shot into 3' deep fescue. After a few minutes I found the ball. My first stroke at the ball hit fat behind the ball, but never moved it. With my second stroke I put it on the green. When he asked my score I told him a number. As we were walking to the next tee, I replayed the hole in my head as I always do to make sure I scored it correctly. I realized that I had not counted the stroke where the ball did not move. When I told him to change my score and add the stroke, explaining why, he looked at me with a sense of pride. He had not caught the mistake at first either.

[tws1098]

I don't play in tournaments often, and I NEVER play for money, so I don't really pay much attention to others scores unless they make it obvious that they are shaving strokes. I prefer to "lead" by example. I played with my dad last weekend. On one hole I hit my tee shot into 3' deep fescue. After a few minutes I found the ball. My first stroke at the ball hit fat behind the ball, but never moved it. With my second stroke I put it on the green. When he asked my score I told him a number. As we were walking to the next tee, I replayed the hole in my head as I always do to make sure I scored it correctly. I realized that I had not counted the stroke where the ball did not move.

Sounds like my dad. I would have done the same thing, as I would not feel good about my score if I knew it wasn't honest...even by 1 stroke.

[Koth]

Sure, and I was being a bit facetious in my choice of words. I never really play competitive rounds, but if I did, and this came up, I'd be sure to remind my partner that his taking an extended search for my ball when I'm already making my way up to the green and he's due to hit might be considered unduly delaying play.

Going back to this for a minute. You hit a provisional that is closer than your partner's shot. You go up to play your provisional because you don't want to find the first one you hit, but your partner goes off to look for it. Are you allowed to play your provisional to make the ball in play, even though your partner's ball is further away from the hole? I always thought that the person who was furthest away from the hole had to play their shot first.

[zeg]

Going back to this for a minute. You hit a provisional that is closer than your partner's shot. You go up to play your provisional because you don't want to find the first one you hit, but your partner goes off to look for it. Are you allowed to play your provisional to make the ball in play, even though your partner's ball is further away from the hole? I always thought that the person who was furthest away from the hole had to play their shot first.

Interesting question. In match play, your partner has the right to cancel your stroke and make you re-play in the proper order. I'm not sure if canceling it would also cancel its putting that ball in play, but I believe it should.

In stroke play it's more interesting. There is no penalty for playing out of turn, so as long as you'd played your stroke before the ball was found, you're in the clear. The only way out of turn play in stroke play is a penalty is if you and your partner agree to play out of turn to give one of you an advantage; then you're both DQ. (I think this is to prevent, say in a tournament, you agree that you and your buddy will try to play to the same spots and then he'll go first to help you with the read, thereby giving you an unfair advantage over the field.)

[gobears19]

I occasionally play with my father-in-law and some of his buddies. One of his friends has been joined a club, and has been playing a ton. He's not a bad golfer, typical "old man" type golf. Short, straight, and few mistakes. I think he's always wanted to beat me, and honestly, he has gotten better. The trouble is, when we play, I play by the strictest rules. If I make a quad, I don't call it a double.

Anyway, we were playing, and he got up about 3 or 4 strokes on the front nine, but I had come back to down just 1 after 15. He was keeping the scorecard in his cart, and low and behold, we tie after the end of the round. But when I looked at the scorecard, there was a par-4 number 17 where I had made par and he missed an 8-footer for his par, which is how I tied it up. Granted, his putt lipped out, but it didn't go in, and he had a 4 plain as day on the card, so in his mind he beat me by a stroke. I wasn't going to call him out on it, because I've never been that competitive and could really care less. But I just wonder what goes on in people's mind who don't play strict rules. Do they even realize it? Do they realize when a playing partner is playing by the rules? Do they still feel a sense of accomplishment about a score when it's not valid?

[bwdial]

I had a fraternity brother who cheated like it was an integral part of the game. He sucked so bad that simply making contact with the ball was usually in doubt. The first hole of the course we usually played was a 530-550 yard par 5, which back in the early 1990s was a driver, three wood, short iron hole for me. Given my ability, the topped fairway wood or chunked wedge usually reared its ugly head at some point, and I'd usually card a six or seven. Of course, this guy would slice his drive 150 yards off the tee - 100 down the fairway and 50 yards into the rough - so he wouldn't even reach the fairway, let alone the trees. Then he'd flub a 3 wood and rattle his third into the trees. At this point, he's hitting his fourth, and he's still got 300 yards left. I guess what pissed me off about his cheating was that it seemed like he thought I was an idiot. Now, I'll admit it, math was never my strong suit - I took 23 hours of math to get six hours of credit - but I can count to six (what I got) and I can count to twelve (what he usually got). Please don't tell me you got a six when you were laying seven 100 yards from the green.

Of course, I was with him when he made his first legitimate birdie, and no one believed that he'd actually done it because he had such a poor reputation for cheating.

[sean_miller]

I had a fraternity brother who cheated like it was an integral part of the game. He sucked so bad that simply making contact with the ball was usually in doubt. The first hole of the course we usually played was a 530-550 yard par 5, which back in the early 1990s was a driver, three wood, short iron hole for me. Given my ability, the topped fairway wood or chunked wedge usually reared its ugly head at some point, and I'd usually card a six or seven. Of course, this guy would slice his drive 150 yards off the tee - 100 down the fairway and 50 yards into the rough - so he wouldn't even reach the fairway, let alone the trees. Then he'd flub a 3 wood and rattle his third into the trees. At this point, he's hitting his fourth, and he's still got 300 yards left. I guess what pissed me off about his cheating was that it seemed like he thought I was an idiot. Now, I'll admit it, math was never my strong suit - I took 23 hours of math to get six hours of credit - but I can count to six (what I got) and I can count to twelve (what he usually got). Please don't tell me you got a six when you were laying seven 100 yards from the green.

If someone asked me whether or not that birdie really happened, I'd shrug, say "what do you think?", and leave it at that.