Ball flight laws and off-center hits

[nevets88]

What does Trackman say about off-center hits? If you hit towards the hosel, does it make the ball head left more or spin left more? Vice versa for the toe. Does it tell us anything about thin or fat shots that is different from what most people think?

[iacas]

What does Trackman say about off-center hits? If you hit towards the hosel, does it make the ball head left more or spin left more? Vice versa for the toe. Does it tell us anything about thin or fat shots that is different from what most people think?

Nothing about thin or fat, no... but I don't know what you'd expect to see there, so I don't know if it's different than what you think most people think.

Shots on the heel tend to start further left and have more fade spin. Vice versa for shots on the toe. More so in woods with bulge and roll but still there in irons.

[nevets88]

Nothing about thin or fat, no... but I don't know what you'd expect to see there, so I don't know if it's different than what you think most people think.

Ha ha, I was hoping for some earth shattering contradiction of what we all assumed was correct.

[shortstop20]

Ha ha, I was hoping for some earth shattering contradiction of what we all assumed was correct.

The only shot that has topspin, besides a putt, is a ball that's horribly topped.

Does that help? : ) There's still people that believe hooks have topspin, seriously.

[iacas]

There's still people that believe hooks have topspin, seriously.

They don't? But then how do they roll farther?

[zeg]

They don't? But then how do they roll farther?

GNOMES!!!!!! It's the gnomes.

[Cornbread]

In general Hooks do have more topspin than Fades or Slices. But that is not a general statement that can be applied in every case. THe particular spin applied at impact differs, creating different types of hooks and fades. Some have mostly sidespin, some have mostly topspin or backspin.

[iacas]

In general Hooks do have more topspin than Fades or Slices. But that is not a general statement that can be applied in every case. THe particular spin applied at impact differs, creating different types of hooks and fades. Some have mostly sidespin, some have mostly topspin or backspin.

Uhm, no. The only thing that can have topspin is a ball that's topped. Hooks don't have ANY topspin. None. Zero.

[deronsizemore]

The only shot that has topspin, besides a putt, is a ball that's horribly topped.

They don't? But then how do they roll farther?

WTF guys!? What's next, you'll start saying Santa isn't real?

[saevel25]

They just roll farther because of less backspin.. Though this guy i golf with does have a golf ball flight that goes out quickly but then just dive bombs downward, its strange, i never seen anyone else do this. It might be very exessive hook spin, he does it it right to left, but he just doesn't get much air on the ball, so it looks as if it has topspin.

[Cornbread]

Uhm, no. The only thing that can have topspin is a ball that's topped. Hooks don't have ANY topspin. None. Zero.

Under your scenireo all bals in flight would have only 4 identical angles of spin. Like this + . they would either be 90deg left, 90 right, straight forward(up), or straight backward (down). That's totally impossable unless a machine is hitting them,even then you would have a very very slight ocasionnal difference.

Under you sceniros, all base ball flight would be identical for an MLB Picther throwning curves. It not.

[nevets88]

I hit it 5 yards further when I grunt loudly

[DarkPrince]

Under your scenireo all bals in flight would have only 4 identical angles of spin. Like this + . they would either be 90deg left, 90 right, straight forward(up), or straight backward (down). That's totally impossable unless a machine is hitting them,even then you would have a very very slight ocasionnal difference.

Ball Flight Laws What Iacas is saying is that there is no physical way a ball will have any topspin at all unless it is topped, which even then would require that you blade it above the equator of the ball, or it will still have backspin. Look at the face of the golf club, if you hit anywhere on the actual face barring it being like an outrageously steep driver (which I think would STILL put backspin on it) the ball will still come out with backspin. Even a putter has loft and putts a small amount of backspin on the ball...or a lot depending on how bad of a putter you are :P When you look at the actual physics/logic behind it, it makes 100% sense and describes the 9 ball flights perfectly, but that doesn't mean we don't hit some funky shots though. Even then, you have to look at factors outside of the actual shot, was it windy, wet, cold, hot, dry, what direction was the wind blowing in orientation to your path of play? Were you in a hollow, are you hitting into a wind protected area, did you not clean your ball off before you teed off and hit a piece of gravel, dirt, or mud? I've had some truly funky shots, like ones that I swear changed direction 3 times in the air, ones that I've hit super high and then just dive bombed at the ground, some that look bladed and stay no more than 10 feet off the ground but still go the same distance as a normal shot, the ball that goes straight in the fairway that still manages to go completely missing..... :P I think Iacas has also mentioned in another thread that if you hit a draw and a fade with the exact same speeds, angles, and lines, they have 0% difference in spin other than one goes left and one goes right. They would travel the same distance, and roll out the same distance, not the draw rolling more than the fade.

[iacas]

They just roll farther because of less backspin.

Not necessarily. Nor are they necessarily lower.

I can easily hit a fade that rolls out more and launches lower than a draw. Consider a pull-fade versus a push-draw? Which one's hit with a clubface that has more loft? Which will have more backspin? Which will come down more softly? Let's assume there's a club with 30 degrees of loft normally. Let's pull-fade or push-draw a ball 10 yards. - The push-draw will be hit with a club traveling in to out let's say eight degrees with a face open four degrees, yielding MORE than 30 degrees of dynamic loft. The ball will fly higher, with more backspin, and roll out less. - The pull-draw will be hit with a club traveling out to in let's say eight degrees with a face closed four degrees, yielding LESS than 30 degrees of dynamic loft. The ball will fly lower, with less backspin, and will roll out more. There are some small generalizations made there (for example, we're assuming the same amount of sidespin, even though the club with less dynamic loft and the same clubhead speed will put a teeny bit more sidespin on the shot, but it's small enough to ignore.

Under your scenireo all bals in flight would have only 4 identical angles of spin. Like this + . they would either be 90deg left, 90 right, straight forward(up), or straight backward (down).

Please do not debate any topics that involve physics. It's entirely obvious to everyone now that you're incapable of doing so.

I said no such thing. I simply refuted your BS about balls having topspin. ALL properly struck golf balls (putters excluded but not always) have varying amounts of backspin (never 0) and varying amounts of sidespin (rarely zero) and NEVER EVER have topspin.

I think Iacas has also mentioned in another thread that if you hit a draw and a fade with the exact same speeds, angles, and lines, they have 0% difference in spin other than one goes left and one goes right. They would travel the same distance, and roll out the same distance, not the draw rolling more than the fade.

Yep. To put it in another light, a righty's push-draw could be a lefty's pull-fade.

Now, there are some things that commonly happen in executing a pull-fade (flipping is a big one) that amateurs do that often lead to slices going higher than draws, and it doesn't help that even people like Johnny Miller love to talk about "trap draws" and "going draws" and how the ball runs out more, but the science and logic here is pretty clear - a draw can have more backspin, a higher launch angle, and a steeper angle of descent than a fade quite easily and among better players quite commonly works out that way. Good players often see identical numbers - but flipped - when they switch between push-fades and push-draws, too. I can hit a 7-iron with a fade or a draw and get the same sidespin and launch numbers and the same distances. Again, why do most golfers hit draws lower and with more roll? Because they hit pull-draws. Pulls always go lower than pushes, they have less backspin, and they hit the ground at a shallower angle so they can roll out more. There aren't many good pros who hit pull draws, though. It's a "common golfer" ailment.

[mchepp]

I hit it 5 yards further when I grunt loudly

You and Serena Williams.

[nevets88]

I'll tell you the secret to putting topspin on a golf ball. It's all in the grip. Forget about neutral, weak, strong.

The secret is the semi-western grip.

And since you get more spin with a tightly strung racket, you can't get as much topspin on a golf ball with forged metal clubs.

[Carland]

Is this an accurate image for thinking about the spin on a golf ball in flight? The horizontal axes tip like the wings on an airplane. When the ball is turning to the left, the horizontal axis on the left side of the ball is lower than the axis on the right. When the ball is turning to the right, the axis on the right side of the ball is lower than the axis on the left.

[shortstop20]

In general Hooks do have more topspin than Fades or Slices. But that is not a general statement that can be applied in every case.

This is always the line that comes up.

Hooks have ZERO topspin. Just because they may have less backspin than a fade doesn't mean they have topspin, they just have less backspin.