Is Your Teaching Pro Holding Back to Make You Come Back?

[kafka01]

I had many golf lessons in my life, especially when i started playing. Back then my knowledge about MY golfswing was far less then it is now - and articulating and discussing it in proper manner was pretty much out of question. So i basically had to rely on what my pro was telling me. Initally we fixed a lot of problems that were caused by poor understanding of proper swing principles. But as we progressed, the only problems i still was stuck with was a slice and fat shots - i couldnt really understand why, so that was basically the thing that made me come back. So i got into all this theoretical stuff, and after i thought i figured it out, i took another lessons - basically just adressing all these points and a couple of swing thoughts. He didnt disagree with a single point.

Now those things were all very minor and fixing was pretty simple - but what struck me as odd was that nobody just told them to me during a lesson. And dont get me wrong here - i have been to other teachers , but those simple but effective points were never adressed properly. Somebody always came up with some idea i should incorporate into my swing - but as i started to understand my golfswing better - i started to realise that some of those ideas were total BS, and would just cause problems i fixed years ago. So if you are a golfer who takes lessons, but you dont really care for swing theory and blindly listens to what your pro tells you - you might just go around in a "circle of pain" without ever finding the exit. Whats the cause of all this? Is it that a teaching professional cant spot minor but important details in your swing (lets say a cupped wrist on top that causes problems on your downswing or a flipping motion through impact), or maybe he can but just tries to fix on the wrong ends due to incompetence? The third option probably would be, he just doesnt adress those things cuz the fears of future business, esp. when he knows you will come back if your problems persists. I want to quote from a thread of another golf forum by a very respected poster over there - John Erickson:

“John, if you ever end up teaching this game, remember one thing, a golf lesson only takes 5 minutes, and you’ll spend the other 25 minutes so your student will think their getting their moneys worth”. What he was saying is that you can only tell a person one swing thought per week, and that’s all their brain can really handle. Then he went on to say, “John, if you want to make a good living as a teacher, the student will always come back to you if they are hitting the ball better at the end of the lesson than they were at the beginning of the lesson”. “The great thing about teaching is, they’ll be hitting it better by just warming up through the bucket!” He had people lined up all day long.. he really knew how to make a living as a teacher. Very complimentary, “your doing just great!” He’d teach things like, “Just try to feel a little more relaxed or just stay with the shot a bit longer”. The real kicker was when he told me “you just can’t tell them the truth if you want them coming back, and if you mess them up at all, there going to spend their money somewhere else!”

So what do you guys think, what are your expierences in this regard?

Personally, when i encounter some problem nowadays, i like to study and think about it as much as i can, and then i take my "short" lesson and discuss it and basically use the teaching pro as a mirror of my thoughts, since in golf, things you might think you do the correct way, often look totally different from another persons perspective.

[kfowler]

I've been to three different instructors in my life. I think I've taken something away from all of them. As I've become much more informed about swing theory, I can certainly look back and question some of the things I was told.

Here's an example. I spent 20+ years of my life as a horendous slicer. I had the classic over-the-top swing with a wide open face. When I first started taking lessons, the first thing we worked on was eliminating the casting and maintaining lag. After four lessons, we the started working on getting the club on plane. I now firmly believe that lag is created by good fundamentals and putting the club in a good position. I think he was teaching it backwards. So yes I think there's some truth to what you say. That's also why I like 30 min lessons instead of 1 hour.

[Comeback]

When i go to my instructor we will work on one thing at a time because it is hard to concentrate on multiple swing changes at once and i am completely happy with my progress. What ever we worked on i will spend the rest of the week concentrating on that until it becomes second nature, you don't want to be overwhelmed

[injury]

this is one spot where'd I think I'd like a lesson from someone with video. I imagine as you sit there and go through the whole swing with them they can't help but mention the other flaws or whats causing what.

Now I'd imagine you'd only work on one thing during that session but at least you'd have some ideas to go on between that one and the next.

I've been a bowling instructor and I know I'd give at least vague mention to other things throughout the lesson while we worked on whatever was considered problem numero uno. If you skip a lot of that correct/incorrect feeling they may develop an incorrect workaround that fixes what the first problem is but makes something else worse. Course I was just doing it on the side for enjoyment so I really wasn't concerned with milking the money side.

[jamo]

This is precisely the reason I left the instructor I did have. I've made a lot more progress using my own video and doing it myself.

[CG031]

I've taken a total of about 6 or 7 golf lessons in my life from 3 different teachers.

One guy was more of an old school teacher, but a good one, he could also play (shot mid to high 60's, I knew he was a player...he could actually play right and lefty)...

The next guy was the Head Pro at my club. He was not a great golfer, he shot in the high 70's, low 80's. He wasn't awful, but wasn't really what I expected from a teaching pro when I played with him. He was not a good teacher either, I learned absolutely nothing.

The guy I work with now is a golf magazine top 100 teacher, and I can see why. i've taken two lessons from him and i've improved so much it's incredible. He's completely got me from going from a high, fade/slice with no distance to hitting the ball on a low, draw/hook trajectory and added about 10 yards to each club, and 15 yards to the driver.

The guys with the resumes, I've found in my experience, really have that top 100 tag for a reason. He can just explain it to me and uses the video software to the point that makes changing my swing rather easy.

[iacas]

I've seen a lot of pros give lessons over the years. The running joke is that they sit back, give you a bunch of BS like "turn more" or "get your left shoulder over your right foot" or "let's watch our tempo on this one" or "try not to lift this." Then - and it's bound to happen because the student is swinging the same club over and over - when the student hits a good shot they go "there, you got it that time, great!"

They don't know what they're doing.

Everything I teach, and everything Dave and anyone else teaches at Golf Evolution, can be demonstrated, both in person or on video. Everything makes sense geometrically, from a physics standpoint, and so on. A good golf swing isn't so much "artistic" as it is "science." The "art" of teaching is coming up with the way to make a student do something they can plainly see that they need to do... It's a fight against "feel isn't real."

But the student knows WHAT they're working on and WHY, and that's important. There's no BS about "tempo" or just made up stuff. It's all obvious stuff, and as a teacher we're there almost as much to guide the student in the right direction and to give them immediate feedback and some sensations or feelings they can try as much as anything.

I will conclude with this: a bad teacher can hold a student back quite easily. No information would be better than bad information, after all. The trick is to get the right information (the "five minutes" part of the commentary above) and then spend the next 45 minutes trying to demonstrate to the student (i.e. getting the student to demonstrate to himself) how to actually make the change(s) they need to make.

[CG031]

I will conclude with this: a bad teacher can hold a student back quite easily. No information would be better than bad information, after all. The trick is to get the right information (the "five minutes" part of the commentary above) and then spend the next 45 minutes trying to demonstrate to the student (i.e. getting the student to demonstrate to himself) how to actually make the change(s) they need to make.

This right here^. The teacher I had no success with didn't seem to be able to demonstrate it at all, and wouldn't really make much sense. He'd just kind of throw out "No, you didn't do it there or Yes you did." And, honestly, I had no idea what the differences were! But my new teacher takes immediate video of me in the first 5 minutes, we go watch it, then the next 30-40 minutes are directed at trying to work on specifically what we saw in the video. It's worked wonders thus far.

[WUTiger]

There's a difference between holding a student back, and systematically developing their swing incrementally.

Starting about 2002, I radically altered by swing. Went from very upright/hit it hard to a flatter, more rhythmic swing. Last two pros I worked with seemed to be "twins" ... both used a modified Hogan approach to teaching. I have missed parts of three seasons with assorted surgeries, but I have made progress on solidifying the swing.

Most of the pros in the 1990s had a quick fix approach, rather than developing a solid swing.

My current pro, when I asked him about a couple of buzzwords, told me "not now." Idea was, if we tweak other parts of my swing, these points will take care of themselves.

[kafka01]

Most of the pros in the 1990s had a quick fix approach, rather than developing a solid swing.

The problem with building a solid swing upon something existing or to a golfer that is new to the game and in middle age - it takes a long long time - most people wont realize it, and the pro as sure wont tell him, otherwise the student most likely will look for somebody else right away. But then again, if you made your "expierences" in the past and know how the game works, and you openly communicate with your pro, that you are in for a long term project and not some quick fixing/workaround stuff, that might be more benefical to you, cuz he knows what your goals are and he might just go another route teaching you, than he would generally teach.

I think the worst kind of pros are to be found in (private/semi private) clubs, where there is not much competition going on, and the pros basically just trying to protect their turf and make a living without having to invest too much time outside the course for further education. I´m not saying this as a generalisation, but once a pro gets settled in and cozy he might just get lazy due to no competition. And thats a phenomenon you will find in other industries as well where the same environment persitst. Another no-go imo would be "clubs" that are mainly focused on beginners, and pros teach beginners/bad players most of the day - you can expect the standard package, but not much more. And if you want to develop a solid swing over time its most likely a bad choice.

But the student knows WHAT they're working on and WHY, and that's important. There's no BS about "tempo" or just made up stuff. It's all obvious stuff, and as a teacher we're there almost as much to guide the student in the right direction and to give them immediate feedback and some sensations or feelings they can try as much as anything.

If you ask somebody WHY he hit it well today, and he cant give you an answer, how would this person expect to hit it well again next day - and thats why the WHAT and WHY imo is so important for a golfer to know. Unfortunately i made the expierence that a lot of the pros try to simplify to not confuse their students (but unfortunately the golf swing is more than just a back and through), and by doing that, they leave a lot of information off the table - knowing or unknowingly.

[acegolfer]

I have found lots of own reading and video taping is not only economical but also effective way to rebuild swing or fix faults. It may take longer than having a really good instructor. But personally, I like the slow progress that I'm going through.

What I'm trying to say is I'm too cheap.

[JWL1957]

Pick up Ben Hogans (Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf ) for 10-15 bucks instead of putting money in some local club pro's or local teaching pro's pocket. Most of them are a waste of time. Im sure there are some good ones out there, but the ones I have ran into are just golf pimps.

You can learn the basics from Mr Hogans book and learn to groove your swing with alot of dedication and practice.

[nevets88]

I've taken lessons from teachers who appeared on TGC teaching segments and a top 20 instructor based on the major magazine rankings and based on my little keyhole of experience the laurels did not match their effectiveness.

It's just hard to find a good instructor.