Can Anybody Beat Brock Lesnar?

[Red_on_the_head]

haha Werdum got rocked that’s why he was laying on the ground, not because he had the presence of mine to “fake” it. His camp just said that to glorify his win. To say that Fedor was lost on the ground is pretty funny in it self. He slipped that triangle choke/armbar attempt 3 times before Werdum actually locked it into place. He knew what Werdum was trying to do; he just got a little to cocky and a little too aggressive, but who wouldn’t get cocky after going almost 10 years with out an upset. Out of Fedor’s 32 wins 16 of them have been from submission; he’s no stranger to the ground.

Fedor is mighty impressive with submissions. More so that any HW ever... Period.

About your comment about Lesnar should have lost in the 'fetal' position after two minutes... I believe you have to be intelligently defending yourself. If you are taking hits which don't mean a hoot but cannot get up because you have a big strong guy on top of you that is one thing. It is completely different if Lesnar would have closed his eyes and curled up. He was showing every sign you could show in the position that he was still defending himself. The ref was talking to him. He was moving on the ground... If the ref would have stopped the fight it would have been one of the worst decisions in a long time for a very important title fight. He was never "curled up in the fetal position". As for your comments about "Werdum got rocked" that is simply not the case. Look back at the replay. How can you get rocked by a guy like Fedor and still have enough hold Fedor in an armbar then triangle. It's just not possible. Werdum was far from rocked... Caught off guard maybe, definitely not rocked. The replay speaks for itself in both situations: Fedor "rocking" Werdum and Lesnar in the "fetal position".

[breakout89]

The replay speaks for itself in both situations: Fedor "rocking" Werdum and Lesnar in the "fetal position".

just trying to make a point that Werdum didn't just "fall over" he was deffinately struck with a couple of punches, and yes if that were any other fight I believe Rosenthal makes the call for a fighter not defending himself

"figure of speech" -- google it FEDOR is a legend, Lesnar shouldn't even be in the same conversation during this point in his career

[TN94z]

I'll rephrase and say he is the best in the HW division. Give me a fighter and I'll tell you how he is better...

I FOR SURE can name fighters that are "better" than Brock. With that being said, Brock's size is what has him at the top, not his skill set. He has a very limited skill set at the moment, and if it wasn't for his size, we wouldn't be having this conversation. So Carwin got his ass handed to him by Gonzaga and then beat Brock down like a red-headed step child in the first round of their fight.....just saying. Other than your attempt at using MMA math which everyone knows does not work, I agree with what you have said here.

Jon Jones is my favorite fighter right now next to Brock. To bad 205 is stacked and it'll take a long time to get a title shot.

Yeah, but the thing I like about him is that he is taking it one step at a time and not trying to jump right in the mix...kind of like Dos Santos. Man did Jones get screwed in that Hamill fight or what?????

Fedor is an throw back to the early days of MMA, like the Iceman and Rampage. These guys are cage fighters, not MMA athletes like many of the fighters today. Fedor lost because Werdum faked being hurt to get him on the mat where Werdum could use his BJJ training to put a triangle choke on him. Fedor was lost on the ground with a unhurt BJJ opponent and was not able to recognize or defend himself from one.

I argee with all you have said except for the Werdum fight. There was nothing fake about that....he got knocked on his arse! It doesn't matter if it was a grazing shot or not, a knock down is a knock down. Don't get me wrong, I am a BJJ guy so I was happy as hell that Werdum pulled it off.

[pxc]

One thing I don't get is knocking Brock for his size. He is not 310 lbs. on accident. He had to work hard to get that big and that strong. He is blessed with a big frame, after that it was all hard work. It is work to be as big as he is and still be agile, fast, etc. Of course it's an advantage, but it's not like he's cheating. He uses his size and strength, which he worked hard to achieve, to win fights. If he improves his standup I think he will be almost impossible to beat.

[newtogolf]

I argee with all you have said except for the Werdum fight. There was nothing fake about that....he got knocked on his arse! It doesn't matter if it was a grazing shot or not, a knock down is a knock down. Don't get me wrong, I am a BJJ guy so I was happy as hell that Werdum pulled it off.

If Werbum did get rocked it was a flash knockdown because as soon as he hit the mat and was in position to bring Fedor into his guard. As for Fedors groundwork, he did have alot of submissions in his career, but if you've watched him fight over the last two years, he's seemed to want to knock guys out and not go to the ground.

It is early to put Brock in the same category as Fedor career wise, but at this current time I think Fedor is on the downside of his career while Brock is still learning. If Brock remains as committed to the sport as he's been I don't see anyone currently in the heavyweight division that can beat him given his size, strength, and athleticism other than Carwin, if he can figure out why he gassed and prevent it from happening during a rematch.

[TN94z]

One thing I don't get is knocking Brock for his size. He is not 310 lbs. on accident. He had to work hard to get that big and that strong. He is blessed with a big frame, after that it was all hard work. It is work to be as big as he is and still be agile, fast, etc. Of course it's an advantage, but it's not like he's cheating. He uses his size and strength, which he worked hard to achieve, to win fights. If he improves his standup I think he will be almost impossible to beat.

I don't think anyone is "knocking" him for his size. There is nothing wrong with being that big and most know what it takes to get that big (even though I'm sure everyone agrees that he took some enhancers while in the WWE). He is a great athlete...a freak to be more specific! I argee he uses his size while.

If Werbum did get rocked it was a flash knockdown because as soon as he hit the mat and was in position to bring Fedor into his guard. As for Fedors groundwork, he did have alot of submissions in his career, but if you've watched him fight over the last two years, he's seemed to want to knock guys out and not go to the ground.

Well, you can't really judge anything by that. It's like when wrestlers get knocked silly in the ring, their natural instincts take over and they keep fighting....have you ever seen a wrestling get KO'd and then he is still trying to take the ref down? It is the same thing with BJJ fighters...their natural instincts take over. I'm not saying this is what happened, but I'm not going to say that he wasn't hurt just based off the fact that he pulled guard. And let me just say that I don't think he was "out" or anything like that. I just think he got rocked enough to fall down. All it takes is a drastic change in your equilibrium to cause you to be unstable.

[breakout89]

Randleman, Sylvia, Nogueira, Coleman, and Arlovski are all past UFC champions. Fedor has beaten ALL of them; Nog and Coleman on a couple of occasions, but for some reason all of the Lesnar/Dana fans still come up with the EXCUSES

[Red_on_the_head]

Check out this video... It is one of the best Lesnar vs Fedor videos I have ever seen. It gave me chills!



I could debate this topic all day long. It's like the abortion debate between the Libs vs the Conservatives!

I'm going to leave this debate now... I will enjoy watching though!

oh btw...
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BROCK'S THE MAN!

[breakout89]

@Red_on_the_head This is a forum, it's made to debate and share ideas, get used to it.



this video is better ;)

[alomar123]

@Red_on_the_head This is a forum, it's made to debate and share ideas, get used to it.

Yeah its debatable, as its debatable that half of fedor big wins were to lhws.

Everyone loves to talk about the big boys, but the fact is the best talent is at lower weight classes and they do not get the credit they deserve. Aldo= p4p best in the world.

[TN94z]

Yeah its debatable, as its debatable that half of fedor big wins were to lhws.

I agree about the lighter weights but the hw's will always be considered the best. With that being said, Aldo is right up there man! That guy is a small Anderson silva. Silva is the obvious P4P #1 in my opinion.

[newtogolf]

I agree about the lighter weights but the hw's will always be considered the best. With that being said, Aldo is right up there man! That guy is a small Anderson silva. Silva is the obvious P4P #1 in my opinion.

Silva is a very talented fighter, possibly the #1 P4P along with GSP and Penn. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to fight much these days, as his last few fights were painful to watch. He needs to have a good performance against Sonnen or he's going to really be in Dana's doghouse.

Fedor did fight some great fighters, no question, but the top heavyweight talent today is in the UFC. If he wants to prove he's the best he needs to sign his name to a UFC contract and fight Carwin, Dos Santos, Nelson, Cain, and Lesnar. If he does, and wins, then he'll shut everyone up.

[clubchamp]

I'll rephrase and say he is the best in the HW division. Give me a fighter and I'll tell you how he is better...

Your post is valid in the fact that he is the top HW right now no doubt about it. However it has nothing to do with what's on paper it's just who is better in the cage that night. Mir caught him off guard and beat him, Carwin was probably one more solid punch from knocking him out so to think that he is untouchable is crazy. I think that either a smaller quicker fight submits him or someone like Carwin knocks him out but any match that stays on the ground he would probably win. Basically I believe that all the top HW are capable to beat him if the opportunity is there but he as for now he is the best in the world.

[BostonSully]

Ive still to this day never been able to figure out what Arlovski was thinking there...........

[TN94z]

Silva is a very talented fighter, possibly the #1 P4P along with GSP and Penn. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to want to fight much these days, as his last few fights were painful to watch. He needs to have a good performance against Sonnen or he's going to really be in Dana's doghouse.

Well, GSP has done very well at WW, but until he challenges himself at a different weight class like BJ and Anderson, then I think he will always be number 3. BJ is my all time favorite fighter. The things he has done are just phenomenal. Had he not lost to Frankie in their last fight, I would have him and Anderson in a close running for number 1. But Anderson has it right now.

IMO, Anderson past few fights have been great! They are not exciting because the guys he fights can't get him to the ground. Who cares? If they can't get him to the ground, then that is their fault. Dana acts like Anderson is not trying but come on....the guy broke Capoeira in his last fight!! How many UFC fighters do you see do that? He is an amazing fighter that showcases his talents more and more every fight. We have not seen his entire arsenal, but I have a feeling we will in the Sonnen fight.

[sc13ntific]

Fedor vs Werdum proved anyone can be beat if they have a poor gameplan or get sloppy. If Carwin had slowed down and picked his shots instead of just blindly wailing and punching himself out he may very well have defeated lesnar. Brock has a great camp around him and the money to train fulltime and bring in the best coachs and training partners in the world. What he also has that seperates him from other fighters is killer instinct, heart and the willingness to learn. When you combine that type of discipline with his scary athleticism and size you have a very dangerous fighter.

In the UFC right now his next fight will be Cain Velasquez, a good wrestler with solid striking and great conditioning, but lacking in size. I don't see a way for cain to win that fight. If Brock gets past Cain the either JDS or Nelson are next. JDS probably presents the better challenge, but I don't see him being able to stop Brock from taking him down. So for the UFC I would say that he is the heavy favourite in any fight. Outside the UFC Fedor, Bigfoot Silva, Werdum and Overeem each present a unique challenge. However, I would make Brock the favourite in any of these fights.

But anyone can lose.