My Swing (Zeph)

[Zeph]

Edit funtion timed out. I think my upper body rotation today is more of a result of the arms leading, than rotation by itself. I think I'd get a good position by simply rotating the shoulders and lifting the arms. Not really moving the hands anywhere but up. Getting them more in front of the chest at the top. Still got the downswing sequence of course, but I think it would help.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Zeph

This is a more realistic view from a normal full swing. I guess it's more of an arm folding than rotation I'm talking about. With the arms not getting there early enough from the top, it just becomes harder.

When you turn at too slow a rate to 3, your arms will carry on, go behind the shirt seam, etc. When you turn completely to A3 and feel like your left arm is still out at your toe line (it won't be, but we don't want it so deep either), you gain depth via the TURN and not via any right elbow manipulation.

Originally Posted by Zeph

I suppose it's possible to play with if the rest of the sequencing is right, but I don't think it's helping. On the other hand, with that top position, I have to exaggerate the downswing even more to make a difference, which might be a good thing.

Yeah, basically. The reason Charlie Wi goes forward SO FAR for SO LONG is that he HAS TO, because his right elbow gets stuck behind him, and his arms and hands can't come down, so he has to give himself a TON of time to so.

Originally Posted by Zeph

You could say that, yes. Arms are so far behind, I don't really have any other options but to flip. I'm assume that Erik is talking about rotating the arms/hands faster on the downswing, so they don't arrive late to the party.

No, rotating your hips and your torso at a faster rate on the backswing.

Originally Posted by Zeph

I tried straightening out the right arm earlier and faster one day, which felt better. Don't know if there was any difference, but I think it was working in the direction I want to.

That's not a bad thing either. But no, as you'll see in evolvr (we may not do it first but it's coming) the rates of rotation on the backswing will need to be addressed.

---

Originally Posted by Zeph

I think my upper body rotation today is more of a result of the arms leading, than rotation by itself. I think I'd get a good position by simply rotating the shoulders and lifting the arms. Not really moving the hands anywhere but up. Getting them more in front of the chest at the top.

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

[Zeph]

Doing some work on takeaway. Camera angles are a bit different, but the club is still more out on the left. Not sure if the hands should go a bit deeper from A1 to A2. In the left swing they don't move in until A2. Got the shaft angle a bit steeper at A3 and my elbow is not folding behind me as much. Elbow could bend more, earlier. I'll keep working on this stuff for now. I think I'll try doing a shot from behind me to get a better view. I got a few videos of good players from that angle. I do wonder if I should limit the upper body rotation at the top. I tend to rotate that much even when the elbow doesn't slide behind me. If I dial shoulders back a few degrees, it doesn't look too bad to me. Point of focus could be the head and neck. Once I start feeling a lot of tension and strain, I'll stop. I did hit it better with those changes yesterday. Impact definitely felt better and my shots were more consistent. Shot to something around my handicap on around after practice. Made one birdie and had a good look at 5 others.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Doing some work on takeaway.

Your backswing and takeaway will get a lot better if you feel like the arms and hands DO NOTHING (except hinge the club up a little). TURN TURN TURN.

I feel like The Byrds lately.

[colin007]

Your backswing and takeaway will get a lot better if you feel like the arms and hands DO NOTHING (except hinge the club up a little). TURN TURN TURN. I feel like The Byrds lately.

Nah, Zeph is too young to know who they were...

[Zeph]

Not every day someone makes me feel young. :-D I listen to some music from that era, but different genres. Anyway, I'll try keeping the pressure point between the upper arm and chest at the same point during the backswing. Plus, there is a time to turn and that is now. My shirts are very slippery. Perhaps I should practice without one. :-P

[colin007]

My shirts are very slippery. Perhaps I should practice without one. :-P

Don't do that bro! I did it once and wore a raw spot on my left shoulder from where the stubble on my chin was rubbing on my shoulder skin.

[Zeph]

This is hard guys. A lot of feelings and thoughts today. The best results were pretty much in the same vicinity as the video below. I tried... [LIST] [*] choked up punch shots [*] keeping the hands in front of the chest [*] hands in front and swing extender [*] stopping at A3 [*] only turning [*] sticking upper arm to the front part of the chest [/LIST] Overall, the shortest swings came when I tried to stop at A3. I didn't really stop there, but that what was I was thinking about. Most of the swings where I tried to keep the hands still, only turn, and keeping the hands in front of my chest looked similar to the swing below. A lot of these swings felt so weird. It felt like my lead arm was pointing downward at the top. [VIDEO]http://youtu.be/USRaXaVaWig [/VIDEO] A bunch of top position pics. I need a swing that is consistent, not just having the odd good swing. All the pictures are of different swings. [SPOILER=Warning: Spoiler!] [/SPOILER]

[Zeph]

I think I'm starting to understand what Erik is talking about. Just turning and hinging. It feels very weird, but at the same time manageable. Just turning and hinging doesn't feel like a difficult thing to do, but it will of course take time to ingrain it. It definitely feels like a better position. Here is a comparison of my old swing, my revised swing and a couple of hacks. Club path in the backswing is starting to look better and my swing feels more solid, even though I hit it thin and shorter. I need the other components before I can really start to see the big improvement in ballstriking. Weight forward and some pressure points in the hands stuff to stop throwing the club. Contact area on the clubface doesn't look terrible either. Some dirt, grass and stuff, but most of the ball stuff is right where I want it to be.

[colin007]

Dude, the difference between those first two pics is awesome... I'm learning a lot from this thread, I overswing like you do because I'm flexible and the momentum of my arms takes me father than I need to go. I love the idea of just turning the shoulders - I did this with my Orange Whip and it's amazing how far the swing goes without even thinking about folding the right arm...

[Zeph]

I work offshore, but luckily got a simulator out here. Even got a set of Titleist AP2 with S300 shafts. The lighting is not the best, so high speed capture didn't work too well. It also put the projector into epilepsy mode.

Working on turning shoulders and hips, hands more in front and getting the hands down faster.

[Zeph]

[VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK_Bydk5eLY[/VIDEO] [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reUUR137IC4[/VIDEO] Working on: [LIST] [*] Rotation [*] Flexing elbow earlier [*] Staying closed longer [*] Getting arms down faster [/LIST] I see that I got some work to do on the elbow. I think I get my hands a bit too far away from my body during the takeaway. Looks like I could attach the upper arm a bit more to the chest, which will get the hands closer. Feeling/thought can be to keep the hands closer, not be as wide. Of course other stuff to work on, but I am satisfied with the progress so far. I can't do anything about impact until I get some other pieces in place and start to work on pressure points.

[Zeph]

I've moved the ball more forward and started using forward focus point. How far and where should I focus? Working on some sequencing, arms more down and less out on the downswing, weight more forward, straighter legs, extension. [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1fPeDFxL-g[/VIDEO] [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zrxm3r4boak[/VIDEO]

[Zeph]

Not a lot going on here this year. I've played a lot of golf, but not put much effort into practice. My final year at school is coming up and I want to get back to it after that.

My club had a fund raising campaign during the winter where they sold packages of greenfees, range balls, lessons etc. I bought one with three lessons that I will be spending before school starts again. Already had my first, where we focused on irons and ballstriking. He had nothing to comment on my setup, posture, grip etc. Not surprisingly, my takeaway had regressed to the inside flip, so we worked on keeping the club on plane and getting the left arm in line with the shoulders at the top.

The next lesson we'll be looking at the driver. I'm sure there is a lot of the same stuff causing problems there. I also hope I'll get some more distance out of it. On flat fairways, I'm hitting it 250 yards total, which is not what I want. Based on my swing speed (105-110), I can get more out of it. Low launch angle is probably one of the problems, maybe high spin, too. I may also be holding back a lot, since I can't trust it. Some years ago, when I was very confident with the driver, my distance was better.

I got another two weeks of vacation, so I don't expect to fix it all this year. Once school starts, there won't be much more golf.

[Zeph]

Just some notes for future reference:

Irons

• Take club back on plane.
• High hands, left arm in line with shoulders.

Driver

• Softer right arm at address, more back tilt.
• Full rotation of upper and lower body.
• Keep flex in back knee longer in downswing, not extending it too early. Feels more backwards leaning through the finish.
• Full follow through, belt buckle at target.

Chipping, pitching, bunker shots

• Take club back on plane.

Putting

• Longer backswing, do not accelerate through the ball.

[Zeph]

Quote

Note: This thread is 3567 days old.

Yikes, how time flies. Here we are, almost ten years later. After prioritizing family life and other things for a long time, I'm finally ready to play more golf.

Grip:
I came across some topics on grip and think my grip has been a bit too palmy, especially the left hand. I'm trying to get it more in the fingers and less diagonal.

Setup:
After a few weeks of playing, this realization came today after watching one of Erik's Covid videos. I've been standing too far from the ball, and that messes up so much. Moved closer on a short practice session and six holes today, and it felt great. It also felt familiar, so I've been there before. I went from chunking the bejesus out the wedges to much better contact. I love changes that involves no moving parts. Just a small correction on the setup and I'm hitting it better and is better suited for working on changes. I'm a few years late, but the Covid series has been very useful to get small details sorted.

I've also had to revise ball position. The goal now is back of ball in the middle of the stance as the farthest back with wedges, and progressively moving forward the longer the clubs get. Haven't hit the driver yet, but inside left foot or at the toe I suppose.

Full swing:
It's not terrible. I noticed my hands were too low, so got that to work on. Weight forward. More of the same stuff from earlier days. Swing path is now out-in and I want the push-draw back. When I get some videos it'll be easier to tell. I've also had this idea that my tempo or flow/rhythm could improve. It's always felt rushed around the end of the backswing into the transition, where things don't line up as they should. A short pause as things settle before starting the downswing.

Some lessons might be in order.

Chipping and pitching:
A 12-hole round this week demonstrated a severe need to practice, but also to figure out what the heck I’m trying to do. I stood over the ball with no idea of what I wanted to achieve. On a four meter chip! I was trying the locked wrists technique, which did not work at all.

As usual when I need information, I look for something Erik has posted. I’ve seen the Quickie Pitching Video before, but if I got it back then, I’ve forgotten. After reviewing that topic, some other topic about chipping and most importantly, the videos on chip/pitch from his Covid series, I felt like I understood the concept. I love the idea of separating those two by what you are trying to achieve, not by distance or ball flight. With one method you use the leading edge to hit the ball first. With the other, you use the sole to slide it under the ball.

I was surprised he said that he went for the pitch 90% of the time while playing. I’ve always been scared of that shot and been thinking I have to hit the ball first. Trying to slide the club under usually ended with a chunked or skulled shot. After practicing in the yard the last days I get it, and see why the pitching motion is more forgiving.

It’s astounding how easy the concept and motion is. Kudos to Erik, David and anyone else involved for being an excellent students of the game and teachers. With those two videos, my short game improved leaps and bounds, without even practicing. Just getting the setup right and knowing what motions you are trying to do is a big part of improving.

Soft hands and floaty swings feels so much better than a rigid “hinge and hold”, trying to fight gravity and momentum by squeezing the life out of the grip. At least how I took to understand the “hold” part. I also think the chipping motion will help in the full swing. Keeping pressure on the trigger finger to ensure the hands are leading the clubhead and not throwing it at the ball. I've also tried looking in front of the ball at times when chipping, which helps. That's something I've been doing on full swings for a long time, and can make a big difference on the ball flight.

Question @iacas: You say in the videos that you want the ball somewhere near the middle of your stance, and that for pitching it's the same. On the videos you got a fairly narrow stance, where inside of the left foot is almost middle of the stance, but the ball looks more inside the left foot than middle of the stance. Is that caused by the filming angle or is the ball more towards the inside of the foot?

I often hit chips and pitches from uphill and downhill lies, where a narrow stance would have me fall over. What is your thought process and setup for those shots? The lowpoint follows the upper body, around left armpit IIRC, so a ball position relative to the feet may not be in the same spot relative to the upper body with a wider stance.

Practice:
I've set up my nets at an indoors location where I can practice at home. I did a quick search on launch monitors (LM), but haven't decided on anything yet. We're probably buying a house in this area in the near future, so I may hold off a purchase until I see what I can get going there. At some point I'd love to get a proper setup with a LM that can be used as a simulator. Outdoors golf is not an option 4-6 months a year here, so having an indoors option would be great. That would also be a place to use the longer clubs. My nearest course is a shorter six hole course where I don't use anything longer than a 21º utility iron. To play longer 18 hole courses I have to drive 1-1.5 hours each way, which I will do now and then, but not regularly. The LM market has changed a lot since Trackman arrived, and more people are buying them for personal use, but it's still need to spend a lot of money for a decent one that can fi. track club path.

The Mevo at £305 could perhaps be something to consider. Maybe they have lowered the price to get out units before a new model is launched? It is almost six years old, though perhaps modified since then. It's got limited data and obviously isn't an option as a simulator, but could provide some data when hitting into a net. I'd have to read more about it first. It has to be good enough to be useful for indoors practice. As long as I frequently hit balls on the range or course, I'll get feedback on any changes there.

Edited May 7 by Zeph

[iacas]

13 hours ago, Zeph said:

Yikes, how time flies. Here we are, almost ten years later.

Welcome back!

5 hours ago, Zeph said:

Some lessons might be in order.

Evolvr.com?

5 hours ago, Zeph said:

I was surprised he said that he went for the pitch 90% of the time while playing.

I don't use the full extreme end of it, and that's probably dipped to 75% or so nowadays. But I use the sole more than I don't, yeah.

Also… it's good to learn this shot:

5 hours ago, Zeph said:

Question @iacas: You say in the videos that you want the ball somewhere near the middle of your stance, and that for pitching it's the same.

Middle up. Not generally outside your feet in either direction.

5 hours ago, Zeph said:

Is that caused by the filming angle or is the ball more towards the inside of the foot?

I generally have it slightly forward of center, yeah.

5 hours ago, Zeph said:

I often hit chips and pitches from uphill and downhill lies, where a narrow stance would have me fall over. What is your thought process and setup for those shots? The lowpoint follows the upper body, around left armpit IIRC, so a ball position relative to the feet may not be in the same spot relative to the upper body with a wider stance.

Short version: tip your upper body in the direction of the slope.

5 hours ago, Zeph said:

I've set up my nets at an indoors location where I can practice at home. I did a quick search on launch monitors (LM), but haven't decided on anything yet. We're probably buying a house in this area in the near future, so I may hold off a purchase until I see what I can get going there. At some point I'd love to get a proper setup with a LM that can be used as a simulator.

Look at the GC3. You can find them for really good prices sometimes.

[billchao]

23 hours ago, Zeph said:

The Mevo at £305 could perhaps be something to consider. Maybe they have lowered the price to get out units before a new model is launched? It is almost six years old, though perhaps modified since then. It's got limited data and obviously isn't an option as a simulator, but could provide some data when hitting into a net. I'd have to read more about it first. It has to be good enough to be useful for indoors practice. As long as I frequently hit balls on the range or course, I'll get feedback on any changes there.

Do your research first and if you’re still interested in the Mevo I can sell you mine for less than that.