Choking...

[TN94z]

So during the PGA today, my cousin and I started talking about choking. He says that all pros on the tour choke and the win comes from the golfer that chokes the least amount. I think this is quite extreme because I don't think having a bad day is necessarily choking.

What do you guys think about this?

[B-Con]

Golf is a fickle skill. Just reading the threads in this forum for a while will show anyone that sub-10 handicappers shoot terrible scores on occasion while playing perfectly normal, private rounds without any added pressure. "Choking" is commonly defined as sub-par performance due to added pressure . So long as the performance falls within a normal range of what is to be expected, it's just statistics playing itself out.

Dustin Johnson's opening 4 or 5 rounds of the US Open this year could be called choking, due to the timing of the poor performance; but I'm still on the fence regarding that. Phil Mickelson's +6 in the final round of Firestone should not, due to his style of play.

[Judah Ben-Hur]

Some call it a choke or some call it getting all tensed up. It is a game of mistakes and mishits and he who does the least usually comes out on top. I used to play alot of tennis, its no fun when you can't hit the ball to save yourself when all your other matches where just fine including the warmup beforehand. Tennis and golf unfortunetly, don't allow you to hide behind your teammates when things are not firing on all cylinders. Your on center stage with all eyes on you and you must finish it out. You can only hope that it isn't too ugly getting there.

[TN94z]

Some call it a choke or some call it getting all tensed up. It is a game of mistakes and mishits and he who does the least usually comes out on top. I used to play alot of tennis, its no fun when you can't hit the ball to save yourself when all your other matches where just fine including the warmup beforehand. Tennis and golf unfortunetly, don't allow you to hide behind your teammates when things are not firing on all cylinders. Your on center stage with all eyes on you and you must finish it out. You can only hope that it isn't too ugly getting there.

I think that the winner is the guy that manages his mistakes the best. But I don't think that mistakes are considered choking. My cousin basically says that if you are in the lead on Sunday and lose, then you choked. I don't necessarily agree with that. It may just be that your bad day timed out to be on Sunday and you could have played just as bad if you were in 54th place. I guess I am more of a person than feels like you have to be in a position that you are going to win the tournament unless you really screw up. I don't think you are in that position on the first hole of the last day since no one knows who is going to win. But if you are 3 up with 2 to play and then go double, double to lose, then that is a choke, IMO. I guess it just comes down to everyone's interpretation of the situation, but I just wanted to see what the majority opinion was.

I used to think that Phil choked there, but since that is his style of play...maybe it wasn't a choke....just bad mistakes. But my cousin thinks that he choked by making those decisions.

[Paradox]

It doesn't matter who you are or how long you have been doing something at the highest level...you will always start to tense up and feel the pressure when it comes time to put it on the line.

The person who wins any big event is the person who managed their mistakes the best. I guarantee that Phil feels the nerves on the home stretch...Tiger, too. I bet if you asked Jack and Arnie, they'd say the same thing. Doesn't matter how many times they've won, they all start to feel those nerves. Only difference comes in understanding how your body reacts to those nerves and dealing with them in a calmer manner than someone who hasn't been there before.

[TN94z]

It doesn't matter who you are or how long you have been doing something at the highest level...you will always start to tense up and feel the pressure when it comes time to put it on the line.

So do you think that making mistakes is choking?

[westcyderydin]

i would say distin johnson choked in the us open... the way he stepped up so quickly to chip that ball left handed out of huge rough...

[Paradox]

So do you think that making mistakes is choking?

well that answer is yes and no.

Choking comes into play when you can't handle the increased stimulation and anxiety your body feels..when you let those feelings win instead of you winning..you choke. When you can harness those feelings and have some control over them, you won't choke. What I am saying is that EVERYONE feels the pressure, its the ones who can deal with that pressure the best who win. On top of that, the increase in adrenaline and all that will cause everyone, without fault, to do things differently. In terms of golf, all that extra anxiety and pressure will cause small changes in a swing that no one will even notice but they are there. More tense grip, a little quicker tempo, faster pace, whatever the case may be..but the one who chokes will be the one who can't get things back to as close to normal as possible. If an athlete has to think about overcoming these things, they've already choked...the winner will overcome these things subconsciously.

[B-Con]

i would say distin johnson choked in the us open... the way he stepped up so quickly to chip that ball left handed out of huge rough...

Yeah, I think his jugement was impaired on that decision and might be called "choking". Flipping the club upside down to hit off-handed isn't a typical ho-hum decision, but he just walked up, flipped the club, and swung. And moved the ball like 6". I don't remember him even consulting with his caddie on it.

[TN94z]

well that answer is yes and no.

Good explanation.

[misty_mountainhop]

Choking is an horrendous phrase used by people who never have been or are unlikely ever to be in a situation to win an event like the USPGA; or anything similar. Personally, I think it's a cheap, ill thought-out phrase used by, mostly, non-entities. The word itself is far too dismissive of the people it's aimed at. Sorry; bug bear of mine!

[TN94z]

Choking is an horrendous phrase used by people who never have been or are unlikely ever

I have always been kind of like this. I think people use the term way too loosely. But I really like Paradox's explanation and that has opened my mind a bit about the way I term the word.

[Shanks A Million]

So during the PGA today, my cousin and I started talking about choking. He says that all pros on the tour choke and the win comes from the golfer that chokes the least amount. I think this is quite extreme because I don't think having a bad day is necessarily choking.

That's all golf has ever been, who can manage their mistakes the best. Tiger is a good example of someone who can make a mistake, and put it behind him very quickly. That's why his game is off so much right now, he's fretting his mistakes more than ever.

It's been said that a major doesn't seek to humiliate the best players in the world, but rather it determines who they are.

[newtogolf]

Some people handle the pressure of a big moment better than others. In it's simplest form maybe someone might consider it "choking" but there's usually alot more involved as others have pointed out already.

[TN94z]

That's all golf has ever been, who can manage their mistakes the best. Tiger is a good example of someone who can make a mistake, and put it behind him very quickly. That's why his game is off so much right now, he's fretting his mistakes more than ever.

I understand that, but my question to you is, does every mistake made get classified as a choke? Are there not other factors that cause a mistake to happen on a particular shot besides "pressure" which would lead to a choke? Managing mistakes and managing pressure are two totally different things IMO. You can make mistakes on the range when there is no pressure and shouldn't be classified as a choke. But when you make the exact same mistake during a tournament it is classified as a choke because there is more pressure out there.

For instance, many would say that Johnson choked on the last tee and that is why he ended up right. But in reality, he had been fighting the blocks all weekend so nothing out of the ordinary happened on that tee box. It was a mistake in his swing, but not necessarily a choke.

[Shanks A Million]

I understand that, but my question to you is, does every mistake made get classified as a choke? Are there not other factors that cause a mistake to happen on a particular shot besides "pressure" which would lead to a choke? Managing mistakes and managing pressure are two totally different things IMO. You can make mistakes on the range when there is no pressure and shouldn't be classified as a choke. But when you make the exact same mistake during a tournament it is classified as a choke because there is more pressure out there.

Maybe not, but mistakes are part of the game. Choking is letting the mistakes get the better of you.

[TN94z]

Maybe not, but mistakes are part of the game. Choking is letting the mistakes get the better of you.

So if a tour player comes out on the first tee of a major while leading on the final day and loses his drive OB, but goes to the next hole and plays fine the rest of the day....did he choke or make a mistake? If that caused him to lose the tournament, is it still just a mistake that didn't get the better of him, or was it a choke because he was leading?

I am by no means arguing with you, I am just trying to get a little clarification. And I think that most of us know that everyone makes mistakes and managing the mistakes are what makes players better than other players and that is golf. But where is the line drawn for the word "choke" which seems to be thrown around like it is nothing.

[Shanks A Million]

So if a tour player comes out on the first tee of a major while leading on the final day and loses his drive OB, but goes to the next hole and plays fine the rest of the day....did he choke or make a mistake? If that caused him to lose the tournament, is it still just a mistake that didn't get the better of him, or was it a choke because he was leading?

Then it's a mistake. Choking is when you go Dustin Johnson at the U.S. Open and shoot 82.