Stuart Appleby rips Whistling Straits

[paxtonman]

That was my thought, isn't part of the point of these courses to have poor slob hacks like myself want to play a round there? I have no desire to play that course.

What's the point of 1200 bunkers anyway? I wasn't enamored with the golf course as all the networks were...mickey mouse design if you ask me.

[walk18]

My question for WS is, how do people play there regularly with no crowd and camera crews? It seems like any shot off the fairways would not be findable. I'd shoot 1000 there.

and you'd pay $350 to do it. Nice, huh?

[Cornbread]

And was that decision made today or BEFORE last weekend? My point was that this fiasco is probably going to make the PGA of America think twice before scheduling another tournament there.

Nahh... but you can bet changes will be made to some bunkers and to how they are managed during the tourneys.

[iacas]

Nahh... but you can bet changes will be made to some bunkers and to how they are managed during the tourneys.

The PGA rules guy said they can't imagine that they'll change the rules. They'll discuss it, but he can't see changing the rule, because any change would make it unmanageable. "Every bunker is a bunker" is easy to manage.

Dustin missed the fairway by 50 yards. I think bunkers that far offline should just be eliminated. They made a point of saying that many bunkers aren't really in play - great - so why have 'em? Just eliminate 'em. It's like Herb Kohler wants to whip it out and measure "MY course has over TWELVE HUNDRED bunkers, how big is yours?" Stupid. Appleby was stupid in 2004 when he did the same thing (twice).

[Golfwolf]

Exactly. They made the right call based on the circumstances, but the circumstances were a mistake from the offset

I agree, there needs to be a change for 2015. Either they control the spectators (keep them out of bunkers) or designate some bunkers as waste areas(those outside the ropes). It is sad when this type of thing happens, it puts a black eye on what otherwise was a good event to watch.

[shades9323]

and you'd pay $350 to do it. Nice, huh?

That is before the mandatory $60 caddy fee and the gratuity you give the caddy.

[iacas]

Ten bucks says that bunkers are still bunkers in 2015 because that's the best solution.

Y'all realize there's no such thing as a "waste area" under the rules, right? It's a designer's term, not a rules term. Courses with waste bunkers have different sand, provide a different lie, different construction, etc.

Holes with sand in them are bunkers (or, if the sand is on a beach, water hazards). The Rules of Golf can't just haphazardly decide to call some bunkers something they're not.

[mjtoal]

Two separate issues here. One is whether the sandy areas should all be designated as bunkers or not. Valid arguments either way.

Second one is whether DJ should have, or indeed did, know the rule. The answer to that is plainly a yes. I think he realised he made an error after grounding his club, but either way, the penalty was properly applied.

[JWL1957]

Ten bucks says that bunkers are still bunkers in 2015 because that's the best solution.

Thats why courses are allowed local rules?

[iacas]

Thats why courses are allowed local rules?

They can't change the Rules of Golf. Only certain local rules are allowed.

It'd be disingenuous at least to say "this part of the same bunker is a bunker. This part over here is a waste bunker." Dustin could have avoided all controversy if he had a) read the rules, b) not hit his tee shot 50 yards farther right than anyone else had all day.

[JWL1957]

Lets not rake bunkers anymore, and let lots and lots of people to walk through them, and fill the bunkers with beer bottles. I'd just as soon watch golf on a local beat up muni course than see this crap on TV. Whats next? Will DJ have wake up some Fkn bag lady and tell her to move?

The PGA Of America lowered the standards of play in my opinion by allowing these people to interfere with the course condition.

DJ had a brain fart by not reading the posted rules. He was 100% in the wrong. The PGA Of America also fostered the situation by allowing this condition of play. A great tourney was given a black eye because of the ending controversy, and took the spotlight off of the great play by Martin Kaymer.

[jamo]

Really Appelby? Hiding behind Twitter? If you actually have an opinion come out an say it. Don't "tweet" it. C'mon now.

[Alley Cat]

He has a right to be upset. It is an insult to every player in the field.

My thoughts exactly!

[JWL1957]

They can't change the Rules of Golf. Only certain local rules are allowed.

The course superintendent or tournament committee cannot deem certain places on a golf course to be ground under repair? Lets put a asterick next to any players name that won a tournament under "lift, clean, and place".

[StricklandPropane]

Really Appelby? Hiding behind Twitter? If you actually have an opinion come out an say it. Don't "tweet" it. C'mon now.

Huh? NOwadays Tweeting IS how you say something outloud. He damn well knew that would be made public. That's not hiding. Hell, Twitter's probably the fastest way to get your opinions out there.

[JWL1957]

USGA Definition of a bunker:

Bunker
A "bunker" is a hazard consisting of a prepared area of ground, often a hollow, from which turf or soil has been removed and replaced with sand or the like.

I wonder if we could lobby the USGA to remove the word prepared , and add in that: a bunker is often ocuppied by beer swilling spectators who may or may not interfere with playing conditions.

[JWL1957]

Huh? NOwadays Tweeting IS how you say something outloud. He damn well knew that would be made public. That's not hiding. Hell, Twitter's probably the fastest way to get your opinions out there.

Agree. Where is the hiding?

[zeg]

As far as only certain local rules being allowed, I think a course can pretty much make any local rule it wants. It can deem that woods are lateral hazards, allowing player to drop at the point of entry rather than re-teeing to speed up play

No, there are very tight restrictions on what local rules are permitted. It's not uncommon to come across local rules that are not legal. For example, your example is not permitted. You cannot declare anything that does not meet the definition of a water hazard to be a water hazard. Further, it's almost specifically not permitted by Decision 33-8/35:

Q. The areas immediately adjacent to the fairways consist of large embedded boulders, thick desert brush and prickly cactus. A player whose ball comes to rest in such areas has no opportunity to play a stroke. Would it be proper to make a Local Rule under which such areas would be treated as lateral water hazards? A. No. There are many courses where the areas adjacent to the fairways are of such a nature that a ball therein is almost always lost or unplayable. Thus, such a situation is not abnormal.

(The detail that cactuses are involved is immaterial, since the decision only notes that areas you can't possibly play from are common, so woods would be the same.) This one is broken around here all the time, often with peculiar quirks about being allowed to ground in the "hazard," etc. I understand why they do it---for safety and pace of play---but it's really not permitted under the rules. It should be an environmentally sensitive area if they don't want you to play out of it, and then should be played as ground under repair. The Rules and Decisions weigh in quite a lot on what local rules are impermissible. Have a look through the decisions on section 33.

let them pull stones out of bunkers (as WS had in place) and even deem that sandy areas that people walk in and vehicles drive over are bunkers and not waste areas.

The section on local rules clearly allows a committee to declare stones in a bunker to be obstructions, as they did. This is probably because of the obvious safety issue and the fact that it's not common for sizeable stones to exist in bunkers.

As for the latter, that was not the doing of a local rule. The areas fit the definition of a bunker, so they cannot be made otherwise. You might be able to permit special play from within those bunkers, but they will always be bunkers unless they are re-landscaped out.

Sure, they can't change fundamental rules like letting you re-tee for free, but as far as marking the course or even allowing pick clean and place, I think anything goes.

It's absolutely not anything goes. Lift, clean, and place is explicitly offered as a local rule as well. You're correct in the sense that the permissible local rules must be minor deviations, but if it's not something that's been addressed in the appendix on the subject, the committee needs to get permission for the rule.