Understanding flier lies

[homerun79]

I think what I want to ask about is flier lies, I've never actually heard a detailed explanation of them yet, but in my last 2 rounds I had what I believe to be one in each. Ball was fluffed up in the primary rough, so of course I'm trying to make good contact and I think I choked up a bit on the club to compensate for the ball being closer to me. BTW, these were 8/9 iron shots and in both cases the ball started on line and hooked about 20 yards left.

What tips can anyone provide as to how you deal with this type of shot, and are my results typical from this kind of lie or was I mentally thinking too much and my swing suffered somehow?

Thanks

[James_Black]

A "flier" is a shot with a short iron that flies further because it has less backspin.
I don't think the hook has anything to do with it.

Are you playing with the new grooves?

[mdbuschsr]

The hook sounds like the club face getting closed by the tall grass.

[James_Black]

The hook sounds like the club face getting closed by the tall grass.

that's what I think too.

It happens to me a lot when i get into thick rough

[mdbuschsr]

I don't show a HC high enough to speak authoritatively, but it happens to me almost every time. I aim out to the right some distance depending on the lie and distance to the flag.

[sean_miller]

I think what I want to ask about is flier lies, I've never actually heard a detailed explanation of them yet, but in my last 2 rounds I had what I believe to be one in each. Ball was fluffed up in the primary rough, so of course I'm trying to make good contact and I think I choked up a bit on the club to compensate for the ball being closer to me. BTW, these were 8/9 iron shots and in both cases the ball started on line and hooked about 20 yards left.

I think you didn't experience a flyer. A flyer can be hit with any club when grass (or water) fills the grooves and there's not as much backspin and the trajectory is flatter - like a plateau - and the ball usually flies longer than normal.

[Fourputt]

The hook sounds like the club face getting closed by the tall grass.

that's what I think too.

It's also possible that he is scooping it and putting hook spin on it because of the nice fluffy lie.

A flier isn't caused by a ball sitting up in the rough, but more often by one sitting down a bit in short rough. Just enough grass and water gets on the clubface to reduce backspin so that the ball doesn't have the same aerodynamic trajectory that it would normally have, but not enough grass to slow down the clubhead. I get these occasionally now because all of my irons except my SW have the new grooves. I have to play most approach shots from the rough for more roll than I used to, and I sometimes catch the ball really sweet and get a flier.

[$2 Nassau]

The epitome of a flyer lie is a ball in the rough sitting on top of rough that has been trampled down a bit. The ball sits on the grass, but could be hovering a good inch or more off the ground. What causes the "flyer" is with a lie like this you tend to hit the ball higher on the club face causing less spin, higher trajectory, longer carry, and of course no check-up when it lands..even with a short iron.

Think of it like hitting a driver. You basically want to hit a "flyer" - tee'd high, catch it high on the face= low spin, high launch. That's good with a driver in a situation where "further is better" but when you are hitting an approach to a specific distance it can be deadly.

[soloredd]

I think it was Faldo this past weekend who said when he had a long grass lie he went to almost a fade type of swing, I'm assuming to keep the hook at bay. I've had the same results, a hook out of the long stuff, because I keep a square clubface at address. Need to learn to open it a bit.

Flier lie is different. $2 Nassau has the best meaning of it. I tend to punch out of those but every now and then I'll have a brain fart and really launch on one of those lies. Stupid.

[homerun79]

great feedback guys, ok so now I understand the idea behind a flyer lie, most likely the grass was closing the clubface on the hook shots I made. I guess that's a drawback of the light grip feeling I'm working on, higher chance of the face turning... Generally you want to have more grip pressure in the rough to keep that face moving square through the ball right? Funny thing is I never really do that but it makes sense!

I don't think I've had a lot of true 'flyers' that had low spin and carried longer than usual, but now I know what to look for!

Do most of you agree you want to firm up the grip pressure when the balls sitting down in rough? As I've been learning about grip pressure determining the amount of clubhead release and consequently, a draw/fade characteristic on the ball...if we squeeze the club more to keep it square, we should expect a fade more likely than a draw correct?

cheers

[cody west]

Do most of you agree you want to firm up the grip pressure when the balls sitting down in rough?

dont be to firm, just enough so the club doesn't twist out of your hands. just swing through the ball and focus on swinging down because if you focus to much on the grip it will mess with your head and i mean most of us dont play US Open rough everyday, at my home course i would prefer the rough over the fairway if i know its a fairway with a lot of divots

[Paradox]

when a ball is really sitting down in the rough for me, I don't think about firm wrists or anything like that...I just concentrate on trying to come in steeper on the downswing. Less club/grass interaction prior to contact..at least thats the goal. It comes out more like a punch shot but when you're in rough thats deep enough to need to do this, you shouldn't be trying for the green or anything like that, anyway.

[sean_miller]

when a ball is really sitting down in the rough for me, I don't think about firm wrists or anything like that...I just concentrate on trying to come in steeper on the downswing. Less club/grass interaction prior to contact..at least thats the goal. It comes out more like a punch shot but when you're in rough thats deep enough to need to do this, you shouldn't be trying for the green or anything like that, anyway.

I don't get flyers from deep rough. More out of light rough - when your lie is just good enough that you sort of forget you're in the rough.

[homerun79]

when a ball is really sitting down in the rough for me, I don't think about firm wrists or anything like that...I just concentrate on trying to come in steeper on the downswing. Less club/grass interaction prior to contact..at least thats the goal. It comes out more like a punch shot but when you're in rough thats deep enough to need to do this, you shouldn't be trying for the green or anything like that, anyway.

good call, I remember reading that moving the ball back a bit in the stance is also a way of reducing the issue, but I like your idea of a steeper downswing more!

[Fourputt]

good call, I remember reading that moving the ball back a bit in the stance is also a way of reducing the issue, but I like your idea of a steeper downswing more!

Isn't that what moving the ball back actually does? It makes you hit the ball a bit earlier in the downswing while the club is still coming down steeper. That's how it seems to work for me anyway.

It's surprising to discover well you can play a shot from fairly thick rough if you hit the ball with a steeper angle of attack. I see some the higher handicappers I play with struggle with this because the club starts slowing down at the point of contact with the grass, sometimes 2 or 3 inches before they get to the ball. Move the ball back a couple of inches in your stance and it can make all the difference between a closed face and a weak dead left shot vs. a fairly clean hit and a shot that jumps out of the grass with a nearly normal trajectory.

[Paradox]

I don't get flyers from deep rough. More out of light rough - when your lie is just good enough that you sort of forget you're in the rough.

ok? I wasn't talking about a flyers, lol. Just responding to Homeruns post about balls sitting down in the rough.

and fourputt...moving the ball back will accomplish the same thing but a lot of times I see guys try to make way too long of a swing when they play the ball back which just doesn't work well. They will either hit it fat or top it trying to pull up and get the club on the ball. When you focus more on making a steep downswing, a person will usually not make as much of a backswing and use more wrist hinge instead.

[RC]

Flyers are (as has been noted) not typical from deep grass. If the grass is mid ball high, a flyer might happen. When the rough is such that the only way to see the ball is looking straight down at it and you can only see a diameter smaller than the ball, then you get a knuckle ball effect from all that grass. It is like hitting a ball with a sponge between the ball and the club head. Really powerful swings may or may not go the right distance, but both will roll a lot further due to lack of backspin.

This is the worst year I have ever seen for knuckle balls. We had extrordinary rainfall this year, the mowers are working over time and the grass is going crazy. Sometimes all you can do is take an eight iron and try to advance the ball into the fairway as far forward as you can. There is no way to hit even a hybrid when the grass is a couple of inches higher than the ball and it is thick and juicy. I took a full swing with a 21 degree hybrid and managed to move the ball about 30 yards the other day.

[Paradox]

lol, I hate that rough.