"The Comics" Thread

[Harmonious]

I'd be very cautious about making blanket statements about an instructor by using 1:00 of video.  Better to check out his body of work, and in Ritter's case, he has a lot of stuff online.  I'm fine with having fun if warranted, but Ritter knows what he's doing.

[iacas]

  cbrian said:

Originally Posted by cbrian

Go to google and search his name. Then look at the 5th link.

What, this? Why not just link to it man? I might have missed this gold!!!

[cbrian]

Its not just 1:00 of video sadly. He has implied that to draw the ball you need to close the clubface through impact many times. Its kind of basic knowledge that this is incorrect.

And I was talking about this:

Quote:

About Jeff Ritter - Golf Teaching Professional - Stack and Tilt ...

- Jan 16

Jeff Ritter is a golf teaching professional and expert on stack and tilt ...

But yea, I saw that one as well.

[Harmonious]

So you say.  But, that's OK.  Have your fun.

[walk18]

  Harmonious said:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

So you say.  But, that's OK.  Have your fun.

I'm curious why you're so defensive about this guy. Did you pay him money for a lesson, or is he a friend of yours?

You say he knows what he's talking about, but in the article above he's telling people to shut the clubface at impact to hit a draw. Something's gotta give.

[Harmonious]

  walk18 said:

Originally Posted by walk18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

So you say.  But, that's OK.  Have your fun.

I'm curious why you're so defensive about this guy. Did you pay him money for a lesson, or is he a friend of yours?

You say he knows what he's talking about, but in the article above he's telling people to shut the clubface at impact to hit a draw. Something's gotta give.

All I know of Jeff Ritter is his videos online, but I would love to have a lesson from him.

I'd say this is a decent endorsement from a reputable source:

"I have known and worked with Jeff for a number of years. He is both a wonderful teacher and player. Jeff has correct information and knows how to communicate it. Anyone fortunate enough to have a lesson from Jeff will certainly benefit from it.”

Jim Hardy - The Plane Truth for Golfers

Off topic: As far a hitting a draw, wouldn't a shut clubface (relative to the swing path) be required, or has physics changed?

[iacas]

Harmonious...

  Harmonious said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I'd say this is a decent endorsement from a reputable source:

Off topic: As far a hitting a draw, wouldn't a shut clubface (relative to the swing path) be required, or has physics changed?

To the first point, endorsements don't mean anything, really. Not to me, anyway. All I care about is the information you've got and how you share it. I'll listen to anyone who knows what they're talking about.

To the second point, what you said is true, but that's not what he said. He specifically says you have to make the face go from open to closed as it contacts the ball. If you can do that in 45 millionths of a second, more power to you... but the face rotation in the impact interval is not how you draw the ball, and this aggressive rolling of the arms and wrists is bad, bad advice that's been discussed several times...

I'd include my Charley Hoffman video, but the PGA Tour asked me to remove it... (I argued fair use as editorial for instructional purposes, but they're apparently not fans of golf instructors helping golfers or something... :-P).

[Harmonious]

Quote:

To the first point, endorsements don't mean anything, really. Not to me, anyway. All I care about is the information you've got and how you share it. I'll listen to anyone who knows what they're talking about.

To the second point, what you said is true, but that's not what he said. He specifically says you have to make the face go from open to closed as it contacts the ball. If you can do that in 45 millionths of a second, more power to you... but the face rotation in the impact interval is not how you draw the ball, and this aggressive rolling of the arms and wrists is bad, bad advice that's been discussed several times...

I'd include my Charley Hoffman video, but the PGA Tour asked me to remove it... (I argued fair use as editorial for instructional purposes, but they're apparently not fans of golf instructors helping golfers or something... :-P).

While I agree with you that no one can physically close a clubface at impact, my take on Ritter's instruction was that he wanted you to make sure that you hit the ball with a closed face.  Since good swings go from 90* open at the top to square at impact, more or less, I think he was just emphasizing the point of making sure the club wasn't open at impact. It's the old "feel isn't real" thing.  And it was used in the context of a Hail, Mary scenario where you had to make sure the face was closed, no double-crosses.

My only reason for including Hardy's endorsement was that I was questioned why I thought Ritter knows what he's talking about. Since my opinion isn't worth much, I added the quote from a much more credible source.

But anyway, it's a comics thread.

[iacas]

  Harmonious said:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

But anyway, it's a comics thread.

That's an important point. I don't make sweeping judgments about the entirety of one's knowledge or ability based on one screenshot of something silly, but I'd like to emphasize that everyone else should take the same approach.

The point of this thread is to point out the silly or ridiculous things people say about the golf swing, to briefly discuss their merit (if there is any), and then to move on. Ideally it's going to highlight some of the "bad instruction" that's out there, and not to highlight or lead us to believe those sharing them are just "bad instructors."

That all said, I still don't agree with the way he's trying to say it - rolling the forearms like that will tend to shift the plane well to the left (not what you want) and will more likely lead to pulls, not big sweeping hooks, and even if it did the timing would be a hell of a thing to pull off.

[mvmac]

Ritter for the most part has good information, he's basically a Hardy guy.  Hands in, shoulder's 90* to the spine, head centered.  But in this case, not so good.  If your hitting a draw that face better be aimed right of the target.

[iacas]

Here's a good one from the USGTF , right out of their book:

Pay special attention to two things:

1. "The initial direction of the ball will be a result of the direction of the clubhead path at impact."
2. "It is important to note that ball flight laws only apply when proper alignment is observed."

One of our students went there to get Level II certified and was annoyed that he had to "lie" in order to get the "correct" answers on the tests they gave him.

[Stretch]

Piss poor.

[The_Pharaoh]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Here's a good one from the USGTF, right out of their book:

Pay special attention to two things:

"The initial direction of the ball will be a result of the direction of the clubhead path at impact."

"It is important to note that ball flight laws only apply when proper alignment is observed."

One of our students went there to get Level II certified and was annoyed that he had to "lie" in order to get the "correct" answers on the tests they gave him.

I am Level I certified by the European Golf Teachers Federation and they also have it wrong. At the time I didn't know the correct ball flight laws so it went over my head, however I sent them an e-mail afterwards. I still haven't received a reply. Why is it so hard for people to accept they are wrong??

Btw, I noticed a couple of mistakes in the point below! ;-)

2. "It is important to note that ball flight laws only apply when proper alignment contact is observed made ."

[Flounder]

WTF!;

[Harmonious]

  Flounder said:

Originally Posted by Flounder

WTF!;

Great video!  I knew that the downswing was easy!

[JackLee]

I liked the "Stepping On Spongebob".

[The_Pharaoh]

I wish I could find the clip on the net. Just watched one of Spain's up and coming players on the European Tour, Rafael Cabrera-Bello, explaining how to hit a draw on Spain's golf channel:

"Aim your body right of target because that's where you want the ball to start and point the clubface at the target as that is where you want the ball to go".

So he hits the shot and the ball ends up 20 yards LEFT of the target. He turns to the camera and says, "now you know how to hit a draw!"

It never ceases to amaze me how little top players know about the mechanics of the swing.

[Stretch]

Cabrera-Bello was recently DQed at the South African open when he ran out of balls halfway through the second round. He managed to burn through an even dozen by the tenth hole. Maybe he should work on his straight shots!