Why "not" use game improvement clubs?

[saevel25]

I agree for maybe the better players, but I think for average players, who follow the Lowest Score Wins book, hitting it on the green with a repeatable shot flight is more important than being able to draw or fade the balls at will.

True, but I think some higher handicap players and mid handicap players discount better player irons. There are some irons out there, like Ping i'series that can be played by mid to high handicap players.

thanks for that.

My understanding is "workability" (left/right) is something you can do with any club

The point about GI irons is more forgiving in hitting the expected loft  - which means it's not as easy in "controllability" (up lofting and downlofting)

I'm not sure if that's correct, but it makes sense that a big cavity would help both, but up/down would be dramatic, and left/right would be there, but very low - even unnoticable

GI irons are more forgiving in terms of ball speed retention. They also are easier to get the ball into the air. They also glide through the ground easier, so they are a tad more forgiving on slightly heavy shots.

Yes for some they can be harder to flight lower, but I would say only for those who do not struggle to hit the ball high. If a person is hitting it to low and gets GI clubs they would probably still find it easy to hit the ball lower than someone who hits the ball higher and is struggling to keep the flight lower with GI clubs.

[jsgolfer]

True, but I think some higher handicap players and mid handicap players discount better player irons. There are some irons out there, like Ping i'series that can be played by mid to high handicap players.

I guess I never considered ping clubs to be a players club.

I don't like GI clubs, as the top line is too fat.  They just don't look right.

[saevel25]

I guess I never considered ping clubs to be a players club.

I don't like GI clubs, as the top line is too fat.  They just don't look right.

I would check out,

Ping i'series

Cobra Amp series, they got a few GI clubs that look more traditional

Mizuno JPX series

[jsgolfer]

I would check out,

Ping i'series

Cobra Amp series, they got a few GI clubs that look more traditional

Mizuno JPX series

I used to play nothing buy Mizuno's, but I like the AP2's.

[RFKFREAK]

I used to play nothing buy Mizuno's, but I like the AP2's.

Are AP1's considered GI irons?

I thought they were because when I hit them at the store, they felt real nice and considering my HC is 30, I would say that players irons would be tough for me to play with.

[dkolo]

Are AP1's considered GI irons? I thought they were because when I hit them at the store, they felt real nice and considering my HC is 30, I would say that players irons would be tough for me to play with.

Yeah, they definitely are GI irons.

[LeftRightLeft]

For me with many game improvement clubs (including my own), the issue isn't workability left or right, it's the up and down.  It's really hard for me to flight a GI club down.   To my own eye the deal breaker is offset.  Visually, it does not look good to me and from a performance standpoint I miss hitting knockdowns.  My clubs are GI, but they are fairly compact and have just a little offset in the longer irons.  Still, it's more difficult to flight them down compared to the blades I played when I was young.

It must be where the COG is located, as they have a undercut sole.   The most common miss for amateurs is a little fat and off the toe.  Consequently the overriding design feature of GI clubs is to compensate for that specific miss.  I've found some manufacturers are now "hiding" the GI features better than others, but the commonality is greater MOI, and also likely manipulating the COG down and/or rearward.  If you have trouble getting the ball in the air, you should be in a GI club.  In my opinion, If you impact tape your current clubs and you are showing an egg shape angled higher towards the toe, you should be in GI clubs.  If your shots are near the size of a slightly horizontally-stretched quarter, your club selection is your personal preference.

One of the older posts mentions Ralph Maltby.  His playability scale is based on a number of measurable factors including MOI and COG.  Maltby measures most manufacturer's clubs, but I've found the scale does not always transfer to the manufacturers' SGI vs GI vs Players categories.  In other words, a club can listed as GI by the manufacturer, but per his scale they aren't really GI.  Hard to know what is correct, but it probably means he's designing his own clubs to meet his own scale.  The index lists are on his website (golfworks.com). This might just add to a buyer's confusion, rather than solve it.  That said, he has some forged cavity-back blades with very low offset that I would love to try!

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RFKFREAK

Are AP1's considered GI irons?

I thought they were because when I hit them at the store, they felt real nice and considering my HC is 30, I would say that players irons would be tough for me to play with.

Yeah, they definitely are GI irons.

When you look at the way that irons are categorized, even the AP-2 are rated as GI irons, even though I've also seen them called "player's cavity".  They are certainly more forgiving than blades or I wouldn't be able to play them.  For me they are a good blend of forgiveness and appearance.

[dkolo]

When you look at the way that irons are categorized, even the AP-2 are rated as GI irons, even though I've also seen them called "player's cavity".  They are certainly more forgiving than blades or I wouldn't be able to play them.  For me they are a good blend of forgiveness and appearance.

It's probably better to think of players to GI irons as a continuum rather than separate boxes, but yeah, I would put the AP 1 and AP2 more towards the GI side. As I'd categorize them, the CB and MB irons of Titleists are closer to what would classically be called players irons. It's really just a directional distinction at this point; even musclebacks are being given GI elements these days.

[rolopolo]

For most people golf is a hobby with the sole aim of enjoyment or entertainment. For me that enjoyment comes about 80% from the challenge of getting better at something and actually hitting shots. However, a large part of the fun in doing the hobby which is golf for me, comes from browsimg golf stores and getting new equipment, new balls, new clothes, etc. So it is very possible that someone want to play blades as it is fun and interesting and even if knowingly it will contribute to one or two extra shots per round, the trade off is worth it. I bet them DryJoys are very comfy and keep your feet dry but they are ugly as old **** and id rather look cool than have dry feet. Part of yhe enjoyment for me is lookin good on the course

[dfreuter415]

I went away from long irons (and even my 5 and 6) and went to hybrids, which are far easier to hit.

Very interesting. I love the fact that a single digit handicapper uses 5 and 6 hybrids because of their ease of use. I have a friend who recently went to the 3 and 4 Callaway RAZR X hybrids. He is hitting them so well that he might put the 5h in his bag.

True, but I think some higher handicap players and mid handicap players discount better player irons. There are some irons out there, like Ping i'series that can be played by mid to high handicap players.

Originally Posted by jsgolfer

I guess I never considered ping clubs to be a players club.

I totally agree with the Ping i'series being a club that can fit the needs for various levels of golfers. I've played Ping i3+'s for the last 10 years. My friend, Dave, plays the same club. My HI is 8 his is 18 and we both love the clubs.

Karsten Solheim had a huge influence on the development of irons with beginning with his "Eye" series. The clubs that especially made an impact were the Eye 2 with square grooves. The square grooves were controversial, but that issue was eventually resolved. In fact Mark Calcavecchia was not allowed to used his Ping Eye 2 irons in 1990 to defend his British Open title. http://articles.latimes.com/1990-03-05/sports/sp-1646_1_mark-calcavecchia .

[jsgolfer]

Very interesting. I love the fact that a single digit handicapper uses 5 and 6 hybrids because of their ease of use. I have a friend who recently went to the 3 and 4 Callaway RAZR X hybrids. He is hitting them so well that he might put the 5h in his bag.

It was interesting how I came to the hybrids.  I had the shanks on any club over a 7 iron all last year, did a couple of lessons and just couldn't get rid of them.  I was playing with a friend of mine (he is a 9 handicap) and we were on a par 3 that was about 185, took out my 5 iron and shanked it dead right.  Hit a second ball, same place.  He gives me his 5 hybrid and I knock it 10 feet from the pin.  Best sell job ever.

Next thing you know, I buy hybrids and can't believe how easy and good I can hit them.  Misses are barely off line, they go nice and high and land softly. I was really surprised with how well I liked them.  I can choke down and hit punch shots just like with an iron and they roll farther as well.  I do get lots of looks from the other single digit handicappers, but when I beat them, they don't say much.